Beginnings of Ich?

[Vidaeus]

Hi all,

I have what looks like it could be Ich starting to appear in my community tank on some new rummynose tetras & cardinal tetras that I recently introduced after a few weeks in quarantine. I didn't see signs whilst they were in quarantine, so I either missed it or they've just started developing the white spots afterwards.

The tank is a 200L / 50gal community tank with:

• Bristlenose plecos
• Kuhli loaches
• Neon tetras
• Rummynose tetras
• Glowlight tetras
• Black neon tetras
• Cherry barbs
• Honey gourami
• Guppies
• Siamese algae eater
• Red cherry shrimp

It's been well established for 2+ years. Parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, ~30 Nitrates, 25C / 77f temp. I normally change 30-40% water every week, and gravel vac every fortnight.

I've been able to catch the cardinal tetras and put them back into quarantine and have started treating the quarantine tank with White spot remedy which has formaldehyde and malachite green. I can only see some white spots on 2 of the new Rummynose and none of the other fish yet. My problem is that I'm struggling to catch them to put them back into quarantine, because the tank is relatively large and also has many plants. I spent 30 mins the other day and only got 1 of the 10 Rummynose and it wasn't one of the ones with the white spots so I gave up. Photo below of one of the Rummynose with the white spots.

https://imgur.com/43sxeLE


I'm also hesitant to treat the community tank as I think the Malachite green will kill the red cherry shrimp population I have - there would easily be a couple hundred in there.

Does anyone have any advice on what I should do?

 

[Colin_T]

Are you sure it's white spot?
Are the fish rubbing on objects?

Normally if fish are infected they will show symptoms within 1 week and rub on objects in the tank. A 2 week period in quarantine should have been sufficient time for it to show up.

Don't chase fish around the tank because it stresses them out. If you can't catch the fish easily, walk away and try again tomorrow. If you need to catch fish in an aquarium, get 2 nets. Use a 10-12 inch net and place it next to the front glass so the frame of the net rests against the substrate and the glass. Then use a 5-6 inch net to slowly guide the fish towards the big net. Lift the big net up when they swim into it and you have the fish.

There is no point moving fish out of a display tank if they have white spot or any other disease because the parasite/ pathogen is still in the main tank and will infect every fish in that tank. Just leave all the fish in the main tank and treat that.

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The safest way to treat white spot is by raising the water temperature to 30C (86F) and keeping it there for 2 weeks, or at least 1 week after all the spots have gone. No medication needed, just warm water.

Before you raise the temperature, do a huge (75-80%) water change and gravel clean the substrate. This will reduce the number of pathogens in the water that can infect the fish, as well as removing a lot of gunk from the substrate that will house bacteria that need oxygen.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Clean the filter too (don't replace the filter media, just clean it in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media). The bucket of dirty water gets poured on the lawn outside. A clean filter will help to increase the oxygen level in the water.

Increase aeration/ surface turbulence whenever using heat or chemicals because they reduce the oxygen level in the water. If you don't increase aeration, the fish can suffocate.

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If the heater is struggling to warm the water to 30C, you can insulate the base, back and sides of the tank with 1-2 inch thick polystyrene foam sheets. Just tape it to the outside of the tank. A coverglass on top of the tank will also help trap heat and make it easier for the heater to maintain 30C.

Putting a towel on the tank at night (after lights out), can help trap heat. Just make sure the towel does not touch the water or filter or any hot parts of the light unit.

When you measure the water temperature, use an internal thermometer that is located at the opposite end of the tank to the heater.

 

[Vidaeus]

Thanks for the tips Colin. I'm not really sure if it's Ich, but the photo I posted shows 1 of the 2 Rummynoses that has the white spots - this is the one that has more. Just yesterday there were probably only around 3-4 spots and now there's probably more than 10, so it does seem to be spreading on this one fish. I haven't really seen them brush up against rocks or wood. What else could the white spots be?

OK, I'll keep an eye on things and will try raising the temp to 30C for a couple weeks to see how it goes. I might need to get another heater as it's currently winter where I am (fellow aussie) so ambient room temps are quite low.

 

[Colin_T]

It could be excess mucous but the picture of the rummynose looks a bit blurry so I wasn't sure if it was white spot or something else. But if there are definite dots (like grains of salt) and they are increasing in number every few days, then it's probably white spot.

Do a big water change, clean the gravel and filter, raise the temp and see how it goes.

 

[Vidaeus]

So I've been keeping an eye on the fish and the white spots have all disappeared on the Rummynose. I haven't raised the temperature or done anything yet so maybe it was mucous or something else? It did look like small white grains but now they're all gone. I don't see any white spots on any other fish either but I'll still keep a close eye on these.

I still also have the cardinal tetras in quarantine (I got the cardinals and the rummynose at the same time). A couple of them also had similar white spots but now they also seem to be gone. However I was also treating that tank with the white spot remedy plus primafix & melafix. Those cardinals look like they have some fin damage as well so I might keep them in quarantine for a few weeks more until they heal up a bit. But otherwise they now look fine. Could the Rummynose have been nibbling at the cardinal fins?

 

[Andy Sager]

So I've been keeping an eye on the fish and the white spots have all disappeared on the Rummynose. I haven't raised the temperature or done anything yet so maybe it was mucous or something else? It did look like small white grains but now they're all gone. I don't see any white spots on any other fish either but I'll still keep a close eye on these.

I still also have the cardinal tetras in quarantine (I got the cardinals and the rummynose at the same time). A couple of them also had similar white spots but now they also seem to be gone. However I was also treating that tank with the white spot remedy plus primafix & melafix. Those cardinals look like they have some fin damage as well so I might keep them in quarantine for a few weeks more until they heal up a bit. But otherwise they now look fine. Could the Rummynose have been nibbling at the cardinal fins?

The Ick parasites have an on the fish AND off the fish life stages so just because there are no spots does not mean you have cured the problem. Look at the fish at night after the lights are out and you will probably see the spots on your fish.
A second issue when you get ick is that many fish suffer from secondary bacterial infections at the sites the parasites were attached to the fish so this could be the issue as much as the rummynose nibbling on the cardinal's fins. You would have to try to catch the Rummys in the act to confirm it was them.

 

[Colin_T]

I still also have the cardinal tetras in quarantine (I got the cardinals and the rummynose at the same time). A couple of them also had similar white spots but now they also seem to be gone. However I was also treating that tank with the white spot remedy plus primafix & melafix. Those cardinals look like they have some fin damage as well so I might keep them in quarantine for a few weeks more until they heal up a bit. But otherwise they now look fine. Could the Rummynose have been nibbling at the cardinal fins?

Don't mix medications because you can poison the fish. Most medications are highly toxic and there is a fine line between using enough chemical to kill the disease without killing the fish. If you start using multiple medications at the same time, or even within a short space of time of each other, you can poison the fish.

Pimafix and Melafix don't do anything to white spot and in my opinion, don't do much except make the fish tank smell like a wet Eucalypt forest.