Bettas and Otto's?

[fort384]

moved to Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion

 

[Redd]

Wow, light bulbs are going thru my mind now and I'm stuck in that, "So that's what was happening" facial expression.

Mumma and everyone else who commented, this post has been more helpful to me than the few months of asking the "Pet" store employees questions, I can't thank you all enough.

Ok, Melafix is out of my stash, I'll use the aquaruim salt for treatments only, and this weekend I'm getting a API test kit. Unfortunately the bettas aready residing in my tanks will stay as is(I had areas set out for the set ups), I'll just clean them every other week now. I have 11 bettas all together(10g sectioned w/6 bettas, a 5.5g w/3 bettas, and a 3g w/2 bettas). I check the water parameters weekly w/nitrates/nitrites(0-15), ammonia(0-5), hardness(soft), and ph(6.8-7.2) all at safe levels. Problem is they were checked using the strips, so now I have to retest the levels when I get the API kit. For all I know my ammonia levels could be off the meter.

All of my tanks have surface area for them to breathe air and two of them have filters which I made drip trays to distribute the water and lessen the water turbulence. I realize what cycling is now after the fact and numerous "mysterious" fish deaths, that had me puzzled & stressed. Pet store employees were telling me that I should clean the water more(hence me putting in filters) and add salt. Upon start up I was instructed to add "Stress zyme" and let the tank run empty for 24hrs, that was my cycle,... Shame I know.

 

[Redd]

Wow, light bulbs are going thru my mind now and I'm stuck in that, "So that's what was happening" facial expression.

Mumma and everyone else who commented, this post has been more helpful to me than the few months of asking the "Pet" store employees questions, I can't thank you all enough.

Ok, Melafix is out of my stash, I'll use the aquaruim salt for treatments only, and this weekend I'm getting a API test kit. Unfortunately the bettas aready residing in my tanks will stay as is(I had areas set out for the set ups), I'll just clean them every other week now. I have 11 bettas all together(10g sectioned w/6 bettas, a 5.5g w/3 bettas, and a 3g w/2 bettas). I check the water parameters weekly w/nitrates/nitrites(0-15), ammonia(0-5), hardness(soft), and ph(6.8-7.2) all at safe levels. Problem is they were checked using the strips, so now I have to retest the levels when I get the API kit. For all I know my ammonia levels could be off the meter.

All of my tanks have surface area for them to breathe air and two of them have filters which I made drip trays to distribute the water and lessen the water turbulence. I realize what cycling is now after the fact and numerous "mysterious" fish deaths, that had me puzzled & stressed. Pet store employees were telling me that I should clean the water more(hence me putting in filters) and add salt. Upon start up I was instructed to add "Stress zyme" and let the tank run empty for 24hrs, that was my cycle,...



Shame I know.

 

[Sssea]

Melafix is unnecessary, but it should be noted that the normal dosage is excessively high for bettas and is probably why you had some trouble with it. There is a product called bettafix that is the same medication, but in a dosage that isn't harmful to bettas.
With that being said, there is really no reason to use either if maintenance is kept up on and water quality is good.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Glad to help!
One more thing to add. Ammonia and nitrite need to be 0. Nitrate needs to stay under 20ppm. Readings like that mean your tank is cycled and stable. With that many fish in that small of a space I would recommend weekly water changes maybe even twice weekly to keep their water in pristine conditions.

 

[Sssea]

Also, by 'cleaning' the tanks, all you need to do is a partial water change. Don't replace filter pads! Simply rinse them in the old tank water and you'll be good to go!

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Also, by 'cleaning' the tanks, all you need to do is a partial water change. Don't replace filter pads! Simply rinse them in the old tank water and you'll be good to go!

^^^ yes! Very important. You don't want to throw out all those lovely BB.

 

[ashleynicole]

First of all, do not throw out your melafix. Melafix and primafix are my first line treatments for things like tattered fins and minor fungal infections and things like popeye. They have natural antiseptic properties that can help your fish heal naturally. Second only to large scale water changes.

Second of all, in my opinion salt has no place in a freshwater tank. There is enough dissolved minerals in tapwater or well water you don't need to add electrolytes. Freshwater fish are freshwater for a reason. They have adapted to maintain homeostasis in freshwater. Saltwater fish have adapted to maintain homeostasis in saltwater. Adding salt just makes your freshwater fish work harder to maintain homeostasis.

Also salt can be detrimental to live plants and some types of freshwater fish. I hear cories, otos, and plecos don't do well with salt.


The fish deaths and diseases you experienced were most likely a result of not having a cycled tank, it probably didn't have anything to do with the melafix.

 

[TheCrazyFishLady]

Not 100%, but I think you are saying aquarium salt is what is used to make Saltwater? Not true. They are two different salts. Many salts are present in medications that are used for fish ailments that work great.

 

[Sssea]

The fish deaths and diseases you experienced were most likely a result of not having a cycled tank, it probably didn't have anything to do with the melafix.

Although this is likely, it is possible that if the OP was using the normal dosage of melafix instead of the 1/5 dosage recommended for bettas, it may have contributed.

OP, make sure you're using the correct dosage for your fish, sometimes the instructions can be misleading.

 

[Redd]

I have know realized my "Mysterious fish deaths" were caused by a non cycled tank and more importantly, the way I was cleaning the tank. The lps did tell me to do 25-50% wc, but for the first 2months or so, everytime I began cleaning the debris I seen stirring up caused me to do full changes. And by full I mean,... I pause in silence for all my early poor bettas, I took all the water out and rinsed the gravel(due to my new-found knowledge, I'm looking down in shame now). Altho, I still cringe at it, I now know that "debris" stirring up is natural & needed, I do 25-50% wc now.
@mumma, weekly water changes should be 20% or 50%?
@Sssea, yes I was using the full dosage of melafix, again I now know better.

 

[ashleynicole]

Not 100%, but I think you are saying aquarium salt is what is used to make Saltwater? Not true. They are two different salts. Many salts are present in medications that are used for fish ailments that work great.

Salt is salt is salt. Sodium chloride. The use of salt in a freshwater setup has been debated but if you look up articles most evidence based practice shows no benefit of salt in freshwater




You can do as much water as you want for your weekly water change. I usually do 30-80% depending on the needs of my tank. Beneficial bacteria reside in the filters and tank surfaces, not in the water. And as long as you rinse your filter media in dechlorinated water your not harming it.

 

[Scouser]

Salt is salt is salt. Sodium chloride. The use of salt in a freshwater setup has been debated but if you look up articles most evidence based practice shows no benefit of salt in freshwater

You can do as much water as you want for your weekly water change. I usually do 30-80% depending on the needs of my tank. Beneficial bacteria reside in the filters and tank surfaces, not in the water. And as long as you rinse your filter media in dechlorinated water your not harming it.

Salt isn't just salt really.

There are a few kinds of salt that have different minerals in them.

Marine salt and aquarium salt are 2 different things from what I've read.

Marine salt would be use for brackish and full SW tanks as the mineral and element content matches closely to that of the ocean/brackish water.

Aquarium salt is basically kosher salt, marked for fish and price increased accordingly...

 

[Redd]

Gotcha! Very good info Scouser, cause I thought that floating stuff that stirs up during a water change was the bb. Quick question tho, is that brown gunk in the filter good or should I clean that(cuz I have been)? I'll stop adding the aquaruim salt, so the water could gradually clear up, I don't want to shock my bettas.

 

[ashleynicole]

Gotcha! Very good info Scouser, cause I thought that floating stuff that stirs up during a water change was the bb. Quick question tho, is that brown gunk in the filter good or should I clean that(cuz I have been)? I'll stop adding the aquaruim salt, so the water could gradually clear up, I don't want to shock my bettas.

Bacteria is not visible to the naked eye, it is microscopic. The brown stuff is algae and slime and what not you can clean it as needed. I usually scrub mine with a toothbrush in old tank water about once a week.

 

[ashleynicole]

Salt isn't just salt really.

There are a few kinds of salt that have different minerals in them.

Marine salt and aquarium salt are 2 different things from what I've read.

Marine salt would be use for brackish and full SW tanks as the mineral and element content matches closely to that of the ocean/brackish water.

Aquarium salt is basically kosher salt, marked for fish and price increased accordingly...

Marine salt may have different mineral elements and yes the stuff labeled for freshwater aquarium salt is basically table salt without iodine. Buy the basic elements here "sodium chloride" is still salt. And still not necessary for a freshwater setup unless you are doing brackish and fish that you know will adapt to brackish

 

[GodFan]

Ashley Im sorry but you are the only person I have ever heard say not to use aquarium salt to treat fish.
Redd basically I would recomend you buy no chemicals for your aquarium except prime or stress coat plus (I think thats the one) other than that there are few circumstances that require chemicals. Almost all things you want to do to your tank (from treatment to changing the ph) can be done in a natural way. Sounds like your on a good track though. I still recomend trying to find another home for some of your bettas but at least now things have improved for them.

 

[Sssea]

Are you using a gravel vac? That will help with the gunk that gets kicked up during pwcs.

 

[aqua_chem]

Bacteria is not visible to the naked eye, it is microscopic. The brown stuff is algae and slime and what not you can clean it as needed. I usually scrub mine with a toothbrush in old tank water about once a week.

Bacteria grow in colonies, which are large enough to be seen. Im almost positive that the dark gunk in filters is just bacteria buildup. It wouldn't be algae because algae would need light.

 

[aqua_chem]

Ashley Im sorry but you are the only person I have ever heard say not to use aquarium salt to treat fish.
Redd basically I would recomend you buy no chemicals for your aquarium except prime or stress coat plus (I think thats the one) other than that there are few circumstances that require chemicals. Almost all things you want to do to your tank (from treatment to changing the ph) can be done in a natural way. Sounds like your on a good track though. I still recomend trying to find another home for some of your bettas but at least now things have improved for them.

I think she was referring to long term use and not therapeutic usage.