Bettas keep dying! This one has both fin rot and velvet!

[syrcaid]

So I decided about a week and a half ago that I wanted a Betta for my bedroom. So I bought a 1.5g, all the accessories and got a gorgeous red and blue Delta tail Betta from Petco. The girl there commented that I was lucky because they'd just gotten their shipment of Bettas in that very day so I had a good selection. I treated his water w/water conditioners and added a small amount of salt just like I do with my 10 gallon tank. The betta was stunning in his tank--I was thrilled. I went out about two days later and bought two more Bettas and two more 1.5g tanks from Petco, these two were destined for my living room.

I noticed a few days later that the first Betta I'd bought was spending an awful lot of time on the bottom of the tank, laying on the gravel. He'd seemed to lose his appetite too. One day though, I came home and he was dead. I was disappointed. That same day, I noticed one of the other Bettas was doing something similar. He seemed to just want to lay on the gravel, didn't really eat. He'd occasionally dart up to the top and then rest back on the gravel. This betta died a few days later also.

Fortunately, the last betta seemed very active and fine--unlike the first two. However, I noticed today that he's up at the top of the tank "gasping". Upon closer inspection, he appears to have fin rot, his crowntail fins are blackening on the edges. He also has a strange rust color above his head, which I believe to be "velvet". He didn't seem interested in eating today and will occasionally just "fall" as if dead to the bottom, head down, but then catch himself and swim back up.

I know for a fact that all 3 of these Bettas were in the same shipment @ Petco and I'm wondering if maybe they're all sick. I had actually purchased another Betta after the first one died--but before the second one died and I put that one in the first one's tank. This Betta I got from Petsmart and he appears very happy and healthy and is in there blowing bubbles everywhere(which means he's happy?). I rinsed that tank out with very hot water, but now I'm wondering if that won't be enough?

Any way, is this final sick Betta able to be saved? I read that you can treat velvet with Ick medicine, so I bought some of that, active ingredient is Acriflavine. I also put some Melafix in the water for the fin rot. I hope he lasts the night though, he looks pretty rough today. Should I treat the other Betta with this also, even though he appears completely fine(because he's in the same tank the first Betta was in?).

 

[flip0204]

check the water temperatures ... usually betta will lie at the bottom cause the water is too cold and dart up for air before settling back down at the bottom of the tank. If the healthy betta is in front of a window most likely it is a temperature problem. Also when betta conditions arent correct they can get sick easily either from conditions or stress. Cleaning out the tank probably a good idea as a precaution. Petco has a 7 day return policy i believe and they will check your water conditons free of charge. If your using faucet water you might have to by some Aquasafe to neutralize the tap water. If betta is blowing bubbles hes content and happy. Trying putting some decor in the tanks plants etc..... give them something to do in a fish tank besides stare out. other that that no much else i can tell you

 

[miniflea84]

You aren't very specific about tank conditions other than the fact that they are 1.5 gallon tanks. Bettas can be kept in spaces this small but you have to be very diligent about water changes and careful about temperature fluctuations. Are the tanks heated? What sort of filtration do you have? What sort of decor do you have? Bettas appreciate hiding spots just like any other fish.

It also isn't clear if your tanks are cycled or not. If not, that could be the problem, especially in such small tanks. It sounds to me like your issues are being caused by very poor water quality.

 

[HooKooDooKu]

You aren't very specific about tank conditions other than the fact that they are 1.5 gallon tanks. Bettas can be kept in spaces this small but you have to be very diligent about water changes and careful about temperature fluctuations. Are the tanks heated? What sort of filtration do you have? What sort of decor do you have? Bettas appreciate hiding spots just like any other fish.

It also isn't clear if your tanks are cycled or not. If not, that could be the problem, especially in such small tanks. It sounds to me like your issues are being caused by very poor water quality.

Keep in mind, we're talking about bettas here. They are a little different than "normal" fish. Generally speaking, you don't put filters in small betta tanks. You instead do 100% water changes every couple of days. You also usually don't see heaters for these sort of tanks. After all, I think one of the smallest heaters widely avaiable is listed for 3 to 5 gallon tanks, and even that is just a "constant on" heater, no temperature setting and no shut-off based on water temperature. As long as you don't have indoor temperatures in the 60's, it's quit common to have betta tanks with no heater. Others find ways to heat the "betta room" as a way of taking care of temperatures for bettas. The can do well in temperatures from about 75 to 85, with something around 80 being ideal.

Petco and PetSmart both have 14 day return policies on dead fish.

 

[krap101]

Usually alot of fish are lost right after shipping because they're all stressed out, so I usually wait like 5 days. Gasping can be caused by high co2 low o2 or ammonia/nitrite.

 

[An t-iasg]

While a lot of people do keep bettas in 1 or 1.5 gallon tanks, it really isn't the ideal atmoshpere. Bettas are, in fact, just like "normal" fish in that they need a heated, filtered tank. They don't appreciate high filter flows but with clean water they can live a good long life. Changing water constantly in a small bowl can often lead to illness through temperature fluctuations and the stress of constant changes. Bettas I have had in heated, filtered, planted 10 gallon tanks lived for two years or a little longer.

Srycaid, it does sound like your first batch of fish were sick to begin with. The fish from Petsmart is the one that's doing ok, right? I would not medicate him. The parasite was hopefully rinsed out with the hot water. A bit of bleach would have been better, but just be watchful - now that you know what to look for. The one with velvet - finish the parasite med and hopefully it will help. It is difficult to medicate in small tanks - a lot of meds have a starting dose at 10 gallons. You could add a dose of med to a one-gallon jug. Put about 1/10 of that medicine water into the bowl (about 1.5 - 2 cups).

It isn't recommended to add two meds at once - that can cause stress. I also wouldn't recommend Melafix for bettas. It's a great med for other fish but it seems to harm the betta's labyrinth organ. For now you should try to get the velvet cleared up, be watchful of the other fish, and try to keep a stable temperature. Fluctuating temps are often what makes bettas ill. If you can, consider a 2.5 to 3 gallon tank - you can add a small sponge filter and a 25-watt heater to this size tank.

 

[HooKooDooKu]

... Gasping can be caused by high co2 low o2 or ammonia/nitrite.

That's not what's going on here. Again, bettas are a different kind of fish. They have a labyrinth organ allowing them to take in oxygen directly from the air.

Now bettas do have gills as well. But I have not found a reliable source that can tell me if it is possible for an ADULT betta to get all of his oxygen needs through the gills. Some claim that an adult betta MUST get the bulk of his oxygen from the air unless the tank is super-saturated in O2.

But in a betta tank with no filter and no air stone, you don't expect there to be enough O2 in the water, and so the betta MUST surface to breath in these conditions. (Remember, the betta evolved to live in muddy water.)

Now what I don't know is what type of disease/condition causes bettas to behave like the OP is describing. What I can tell you is that I recently tried to start a betta sorority. For the 1st week, things were going great. I only had one death (which happened to be the one betta I got from Petco) and it behaved differently that what the OP is describing. But then I added a betta from PetSmart that was questionable. I had purchased another betta from Petco, but she had an unusally fat belly and floated to the surface if she didn't swim down. I kept her in QT and she died within 24 hours. So when this PetSmart girl had a fat belly, I was worried she might be ill as well. She wasn't floating to the surface, and after spending the night in QT, her belly was back down. So I added her to the sorority tank. Within a day, she died. I didn't find out about it until hours later, by which time the rest of the girls in the tank had fed on her (her belly specifically). Two days later, I woke to find half the girls were in various states of being fat, pop-eyed, or lathergic swimming. Eventually, every girl that was in the tank succomed to what ever was happening. That included after treating the tank with Metafix, Mycerln (sp), and Mycerln 2. In the later case, they all eventually became lethargic, would not eat (any thing, even if rubbed up against their mouth). It also seemed that any additional girls I added to the tank, they too would suffer the same fate. I never got the deaths to stop until I seperated all the girls, each one in their own QT. At the time of seperation, 4 out of 8 were showing some of these various signs. Of the four, three died (the one that survived only had the symptom of not wanting to eat... that slowly changed after a few days). Once all the sick girls died after the start of QT, I haven't had another fish death.

I currently have 8 girls, each one in a QT tank that is really just a plastic shoe box purchased at WalMart for less than $1 a piece. I drilled some air holes in the lid, feed them daily, and do 100% water changes on a rotating basis (two per day, so that all 8 QT "tanks" get 100% changes after 4 days). I haven't had a death since. BTW, with this sort of QT setup, the easiest way to do the 100% water changes is to get two extra QT "tanks". Fill them with water, add the water treatment (a few drops of Prime) and let them sit for a day. By the next day, water temperature has equalized, and you move two bettas from two dirty "tanks" to two clean "tanks" without having to acclimitize. Then you clean the two dirty "tanks" and start the process over for the next day.

So far, I've been doing this for almost two weeks. With the execption of the ones that started the process "sick", I have not had any deaths. Since some of the deaths/replacements have occured within the last week, I'm keeping the girls in individual QT "tanks" for at least another week before I try to bring them together in the sorority tank.

BTW, these "tanks" are 6 quarts in size. Since I only fill them about 2/3rds full, I would say that each betta has a total of 1 gallon of water, but they have a show-box sized area to swim around in. Air temperature in the house has been averaging 74 degrees, and there's nothing in these QT "tanks" but fish and water.

 

[HooKooDooKu]

...I also wouldn't recommend Melafix for bettas. It's a great med for other fish but it seems to harm the betta's labyrinth organ....

Oh yea, I forgot about Melafix, even though I just said I used it. Actually, I didn't use it. Instead, there is a betta equivilent, Bettafix that is supposed to be safe for their labyrinth organ.

BTW, the expected life span for a betta is two to three years, with 5 years being considered an extream.

 

[joy13]

Oh yea, I forgot about Melafix, even though I just said I used it. Actually, I didn't use it. Instead, there is a betta equivilent, Bettafix that is supposed to be safe for their labyrinth organ.

BTW, the expected life span for a betta is two to three years, with 5 years being considered an extream.

Bettafix is actually a diluted melafix. I don't use either of them to treat my fish.

Most times water changes will help with fin rot. Velvet is a parasite so sometimes medicine needs to be used but I have found no light and water changes usually get rid of velvet in bettas.

And I am not going to tell 3 of my bettas they are extremely old at 5. One is showing signs of age but the other 2 are going strong as ever.

 

[HooKooDooKu]

...And I am not going to tell 3 of my bettas they are extremely old at 5. One is showing signs of age but the other 2 are going strong as ever.

Ok, I did a little more internet research on the issue, and the 2-3 years is a typical answer. But there have been some claims that well cared for bettas in larger habitats (larger than 2-5 gallon tanks) or in laboratory settings have lived for 8 to 10 year, perhaps longer.

Lifespan of a Betta Fish
WikiAnswers - What is the average life span of a betta fish
What is the life span of a beta? - Yahoo! Answers
Betta Care Basics - The First Tank Guide - Information on Caring for Your Siamese Fighting Fish
betta life expectancy - Aquaria Central

 

[flip0204]

I like betta fish and they brighten up an aquarium. I have a betta living with Tiger Barbs and others in a 45 gallon tank. I understand Tiger Barbs are fin nippers but they all get along great and the betta has seemed to flourish. They've been together for alomst a year now no problems what so ever. With proper care these guys are great fish and can live well over the 2- 3 year range.

 

[miniflea84]

Keep in mind, we're talking about bettas here. They are a little different than "normal" fish. Generally speaking, you don't put filters in small betta tanks. You instead do 100% water changes every couple of days. You also usually don't see heaters for these sort of tanks. After all, I think one of the smallest heaters widely avaiable is listed for 3 to 5 gallon tanks, and even that is just a "constant on" heater, no temperature setting and no shut-off based on water temperature. As long as you don't have indoor temperatures in the 60's, it's quit common to have betta tanks with no heater. Others find ways to heat the "betta room" as a way of taking care of temperatures for bettas. The can do well in temperatures from about 75 to 85, with something around 80 being ideal.

*shrug*

I understand that bettas are tough fish and that people do keep them in suboptimal conditions successfully but I still feel that heating and filtration should be used if at all possible. I'm really not trying to come off as some sort of "omg you are torturing your fish" person, just pointing out what I think the difference is between a betta that does ok and one that really thrives.

This:

Aquarium Heaters & Temperature Control: Marineland Shatterproof Heater

is the heater I use with in my 3 gallon. Automatic shutoff at 78 degrees.

 

[HooKooDooKu]

*shrug*

I understand that bettas are tough fish and that people do keep them in suboptimal conditions successfully but I still feel that heating and filtration should be used if at all possible. I'm really not trying to come off as some sort of "omg you are torturing your fish" person, just pointing out what I think the difference is between a betta that does ok and one that really thrives.

This:

Aquarium Heaters & Temperature Control: Marineland Shatterproof Heater

is the heater I use with in my 3 gallon. Automatic shutoff at 78 degrees.

I never said they were "tough", just different.

In addition to the fact they breath air directly (i.e. they don't require an air stone), they are also solitary fish, are not messy eaters, and don't require large amounts of food. Add that to the fact they evolved to live if dirty water (not ammonia free, but less than ideal) and the result is a fish that doesn't require as much filtration as others do.

Now I'll admit, I don't know exactly how fast ammonia builds up in a betta tank at this moment, but since I've got 8 females living in shoe boxes, I'll try to test the water in the oldest "tanks" tonight and report back.

Anyone care to guess what sort of ammonia levels I'll find? The girls are each in 6qt plastic shoe boxes filled about 2/3 full (so I'm guessing about 1 gallon each). When I fill the "tanks", I treat the water with three drops of Prime. The "tanks" are on a 4 day rotation, so the two that I change out tonight will be 4 days old. Each girl gets an average of three pellets of betta food in the morning and three to four freeze dried bloodworms at night.

 

[Zagz]

Moved to unhealthy fish forum.

 

[HooKooDooKu]

...Anyone care to guess what sort of ammonia levels I'll find? The girls are each in 6qt plastic shoe boxes filled about 2/3 full (so I'm guessing about 1 gallon each). When I fill the "tanks", I treat the water with three drops of Prime. The "tanks" are on a 4 day rotation, so the two that I change out tonight will be 4 days old. Each girl gets an average of three pellets of betta food in the morning and three to four freeze dried bloodworms at night.

I tested both "tanks" that were changed out tonight. The levels were not exactly the same, but both were between 0.25 and 0.5.

 

[miniflea84]

I never said they were "tough", just different.

In addition to the fact they breath air directly (i.e. they don't require an air stone), they are also solitary fish, are not messy eaters, and don't require large amounts of food. Add that to the fact they evolved to live if dirty water (not ammonia free, but less than ideal) and the result is a fish that doesn't require as much filtration as others do.

Yes, I am aware of all of that. Still, no ammonia is better than some, even if they can tolerate it. Neither of my tanks have detectable levels. I'm really, really not trying to attack anyone or tell anyone the best way to keep bettas, just saying that I personally think keeping them in slightly larger containers that are heated and filtered is probably, imho, better for the fish.

Just pointing out that the symptoms the OP described sound like poor water quality, betta or not.

 

[Sharky7]

My exp with Siamese...

..I'm probably too late to help the OP, who BTW doesn't seem to have ever returned anyway, but maybe this advice can help some others.. I've found that with "Betta's", API's Maracyn, Maracyn2 and General Cure do NOT work at all for fin/tail rot, spots, velvet or just about anything else a Betta might get, But for normal tropical and freshwater fish they often do work fine!.. Betta's do better with plain old "Salt baths".. I "rescued" a male Crowntail Siamese Fighting Fish (most noobs erroneously call them Betta's) back on New Years Eve (12/31/13) from my local Petnotsosmart, he had a severely torn front left flipper and some other torn fins and some sort of early stage lip fungus and some tiny red spot on his head, he had beautiful multi colorization and was iridescent, I just couldn't leave him there! After I brought him home, I naturally kept him isolated, but in a simple 1.5gal. jug that I had with no heater and no filter, since I had no better option while I started up a 10gal for him, He was only in the jug for about 6 weeks while I was cycling the new 10gal home for him. A simple desk lamp with a 60watt bulb kept the temp in the jug right at 80f-82f. He was fine with EVERY morning water changes, and I'd sit him in a salt bath for 30 minutes each morning while I washed out and refilled his jug. The only things I would ever add to the jug water each day were a couple drops of a good de-chlorinator and a half teaspoon of aquarium salt. His fins and flipper were all healing up in the jug, but kinda slowly. I finally put him in his new 10gal home about a two weeks ago, it has a brand new Aquaclear-20 HOB filter and brand new 75watt jager/eheim heater set to keep temps at 79f-80f and a nice soft fine sand substrate and a couple of silk plants. His fins have healed up completely already, much quicker in the tank, the red spot on his head is gone as is the fungus on his lip, and he looks so much better and eats much better now. I change about 20%-30% of the water every 2 or 3 days and he's just fine. I NEVER ever use any of them useless additives, especially not any of those bacterial supplements that do more harm than good, since fish have lived just fine for centuries without all that junk that the super nerds like to argue with each other over. But when I kept him in the jug if I missed even one water change the PH would go way down towards 6.4, ammo would be about .50ppm, nitrie would hit 1.0ppm!, but since I've had him in the tank the PH is always @7.0, Ammo is usually 0.0ppm, Nitrite is normally 0.0ppm but on occasion hits a whopping .025, Nitrite is usually 0.0ppm-0.050ppm-hence the water changes twice per week. He is always very happy and much healthier now than when he was in the small jug with no space to spread out and swim and was getting moved around each morning... I just wish I had the space to set up something like a 40gal for him. So I would agree that larger homes (tanks) for Siamese Fighting Fish (erroneously called Betta's) are much better for them in the long run.

 

[Sharky7]

Not for nothing, but #1 NEVER add a new fish into ANY tank, bowl or jug, always keep a new fish isolated for at least 14 days, that was if it's sick it wont infect anyone else!.. #2 right around the initial outbreak of bloat you should have either separated the sick one or all of them from each other or treated them all with the proper meds or even with green Pea innards which normally helps bring down bloating in Betta's and most other species of freshwater fish, you did not, that is why they all ended up dead, duh!.. Also you should have changed out 100% of the water since it was contaminated with an illness, again DUH! Maybe you should go try some easy guppies! LOL

 

[BillD]

It is not erroneous to call them Bettas, since the correct name is Betta spendens.

 

[bettarelm]

It is not erroneous to call them Bettas, since the correct name is Betta spendens.

Betta Splendens actually or siamese fighting fish.