Blackout results (many pics, maybe too many for dialup)

[czcz]

I have a 10g softwater tank with terrible greenwater. I usually run 58w CF and it gets some ambient sunlight -- this is similar to my other tanks. Blocking sunlight and lowered lighting does not resolve it. Past blackouts for 2 days have not either. So, attempted 4 day blackout.

This is what the tank typically looks like before the weekly water changes.

Surprisingly plants are healthy and pearl in this enviornment. You can see pics on my site, but here's an example of R. wallichii from the time of the above pic. My guru calls this the most difficult plant to keep happy, but for whatever reason, it is happy in GW given nutrients are stable and CO2 is high.

This is what my tank looks like after a large water change:

This is what it will looked like three days later.

So, blackout for four days. This time I used two layers of garbage bags, then a comforter:

Afterwards, before water change:

Some plants affected (again you can compare the before pics on my site/gallery/etc).
Old growth on Blyxa japonica is melting:

Blyxa closer to the back looks sweet, but probably is not well:

Ranunculus papulentus is droopy:

Eriocaulon sp. from Guang Zhou looks bad but is probably salvageable:

Tips of some are sending out these pods:

Minimal stunting from Rotala sp. from Vietnam and wallichii. (I did not trimming on the assumption that high plant mass will only help)

Some Rotala sp. "mini"/"blue" are melting

Rotala pusilla just curled up and is unhappy:

Tonina fluviatillis, R. macrandra, R. rotundifolia, Rotala sp from Goias, and Lindernia sp. are all recoverable I think.

Here it is after water change (right after above):

Two days later:

So time to trim. *fingers crossed*

HTH

*edited for typos and grammar

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Wow, that is a lot of growth in that tank. Sure is nice looking. A small trim will help too. But looking good.

 

[Jchillin]

We are going to have to delve a little deeper into your GW "success". I know I'm not going to be the first to mention that for unknown reasons, your plants were doing well in that environment.

Congrats on ridding the tank once again.

 

[newfound77951]

Most of my plants did well in my awful GW too, except my swords and Didiplis diandra, which disintegrated into little bits, one of which has now regrown.

I got rid of mine with a combination of diatom filtering and upping the temperature to 86F. This was after large PWCs and a blackout which had no effect at all. I also now have my lights set to turn off for 3 hours mid-day. It took a couple of weeks but my tank is now clearer than it has ever been since I set it up and the temp is back down to 78. I think creativity is a key factor in success with battling GW!! If one method doesn't work, try another one.

I hope all your plants come back! Tank looks great. How you manage 68w on a 10 gallon is beyond me.....you are brave!! I have 192w on a 55 and it is a handful.

 

[hulkamaniac]

Do you use CO2 as well?

 

[Glenc]

Wow, that was some nasty green water. How long was your tank like that before you blacked it out? Amazing that your plants could still thrive in that, you've got some delicate ones in there! I've learned that sometimes a blackout is the only way to rid yourself of green water. You may weaken a couple of plants, but to finally have clear water again is worth it. Glad to see your plants pulled through. Hope it stays clear for you!

 

[czcz]

Sorry for the typos and grammar: the total light is 58w CF (18w JBJ 7100K and 40w Satellite 6700/10000K). On a side note, my refurbished Satellite fixture wont fire either of my bulbs today -- I contacted the vendor and am waiting for a response. If the GW comes back, maybe the aquatic plant Gods are saying its time to tear this one down. The lighting used to be 15w T8 or T10 and the 18w CF, then 18w CF and 50/50 40w CF. GW always present, so I got to the point where I just decided to crank the light.

There are two 1L DIY CO2/regular mix/staggered schedule bottles using Tom Barr's Mist Method by injecting into a Hydor Pico pump (noisy). pH is below my test at ~2dKH but I believe CO2 to be above 40ppm from my other tanks.

I will try higher temp. Maybe it will weaken any GW that may have survived the blackout, before it spreads and multiplies. hashbaz raised an interesting point recently that high light levels or some sunlight shouldn't cause greenwater provided nutrients are high enough. My suspicion is that the GW has held on and my attempt to balance the tank have not been enough to kill it. If it is still alive, I will have to try UV or diatom filter if I don't take this tank down and try again.

This issue has been around since December -- I thought I first induced it after a PO4 overdose, but now am fairly certain that just caused something else to bottom out. Sometimes the clarity is better, but the pics above are very typical of its week-week state. It is strangely beautiful to me even when at its worst.

 

[Guest]

Hey czcz, just out of curiosity what type of filtration do you have running on that tank? Only reason I ask is because the 10 I had would get water quality issues all the time. The plants were always happy but the water wasn't. It would turn creme colored and then green. Found out my hob filter wasn't to happy and it would cause problems. Maybe something outside the box (norm) is adding to your gw problems!

Oh, by the way the thred isn't to big for dial-up

 

[czcz]

Normally there is no filtration, just the powerhead as a diffusor. I have tried a Cascade 100 and Red Sea nano HOB with seeded media to see if it the GW is a biofilter/ammonia issue. (Though no ammonia according to my AP kit. There are only snails.) It is an experiment/learning tank so have been able to control input somewhat, and luckily many have offered ideas for me to try over the months, but man, head scratcher.

How did you resolve GW/cloudiness in your 10? Different filter type?

Thank you.

 

[Guest]

I will have to say that my 10 was a experiment to say the least, and it was a fluke that it survived me as an owner. However no matter how many times I replaced the silly cartridges in the filter they would get filthy in a day. After about a month of scratching my head with water and pwc I ran out of the cartriges and just let the thing move water. After a couple days with no cartridge in the filter the thing started to clear up. Instead of filtering my water I just had a hob powerhead now pretty much. I guess dumb luck does happen once in a while. Thats why the question about the filter but you say you dont have one so unfortunantly the mistery continues. Sorry, I hope you get that gw resolved soon!

When I say it was an experiment it was.
Old live sand out of a reef aquarium.
Plastic wood piece in the middle.
Brazillian sword, anacharis, Something, and micro sword
Hob ?
2 male guppies, 6 or 8 female guppies
65 watts of 10k pc lighting

Scary, no co2 (Didn't even now what that was then) and no ferts. Go figure!

 

[Lepomis]

The fun stuff. Trying to figure out what is out of whack. Is it possible that nutrient dosing is too high. Maybe the overall plant density is misleading and plant density is not sufficeint to utilize the available nutrients. If this were to happen the result would be of course a net excess of nutrients thus allowing the little GW buggers not to have to compete. Does the water seem to clear some before it is time to trim the plants? If dosing has been consistently high even with water changes the nutrient loading keeps building slowly month after month. Maybe it is as simple as P. Have you monitored your water source or switched temporarily to distilled to see what happens to the GW.

Have you tried Daphnia?

 

[czcz]

I do not notice a difference in clarity after floating or adding fast growers. I figure they can't hurt though. I do occasional testing with an AP kit and dependent on their accuracy and plant nutrient indicators I am not bottoming out on N or P.

I change water with RO/DI mixed with tap to lower the KH while keeping some GH and have tried "total" (top of the substrate) water changes. I called the water company some time ago and they stated the online quality report from 2004 reflects the current water, and it has not changed. Dependent on the accuracy of my kits I do not see a difference today from what they have been in the past.

I have not tried Daphnia but find it very appealing. None of my LFS have it but the success stories may have me ordering it online. I have tried Asprin per info off-site, which did nothing, but have not tried the related Willow tree method. (And find it startling I can't seem to find a willow tree in my day to day driving.)

Thank you. Let me explain my methodology for input.

When testing, I tweak EI by using multiple massive water changes throughout the week. The GW first appeared after exceeding 5ppm PO4 (measured by dose). It also induced heavy pearling. Here's a pic:

In modest attempts to rule out P and other nutrients, I've used large-"total" (top of the substrate) water changes to reset the system and continue dosing. I usually will keep the testing ratios for a couple weeks but did not immediately after inducing GW. Since, I have gone back to this couple-of-weeks approach and my adjusted dosing has not alleviated the problem. Sometimes the tank will stay a little clearer a little longer, but not changing anything still leads to terrible GW eventually. Some of these attempts have included limiting but keeping available individual macros and comprehensive traces.

Interestingly, my highest level of temporary success has been with dosing nutrients higher, though.

From what I have read, I think my methodology has been incorrect, and the proper way to test would have been to kill the GW then try to induce it again. My *ahem* thriftiness has prevented me from buying a UV or Diatom and doing this properly. I do not think my previous 2 day blackouts were enough to kill the algae.

The GW is staying away so far, but I have run low light (18w CF) today and yesterday. I would like to add though that tricitytropicals immediately sent out a replacement ballast for the mentioned non-firing 40w fixture: their service has been great. I will know if GW stays away with high light in the coming weeks, during which time I plan on continuing the current dosing assuming no nutrient indicators.

 

[czcz]

Sorry for not updating this. That didn't work and many of those plants are still recovering and propogating again.

8/2

But Daphina does...

two weeks later, no water changes, no trimming.

 

[mr funktastic]

what is daphina? sound like a miracle cure.

 

[Alshain]

http://www.caudata.org/daphnia/#what1

 

[mr funktastic]

lol so in short a small water flea that eats algea that is floating in the tank? they are creepy. i dont know if i would want them floating in my tank or not.

 

[Alshain]

I wouldn't mind having them in my tank as much as I would mind sticking my hand in the tank with them in it.

 

[mr funktastic]

what can they do to u?

 

[Glenc]

Very cool czcz, congratulations!

 

[czcz]

Daphnia doesn't do anything when I stick my hands in there, but I wash my hands afterwards of course. They just look like little specks swirling around. To my surprise guests think they're more cool than creepy. Daphnia is also a good live treat/fish food.