"bleeding" on a gourami

[cinnastix911]

I noticed on my orange/yellow gourami that around his fins, where they connect with the body, it looks like it has spilt, or a blood blister has formed kind of. If I can find my digital camera I will post a picture of what it looks like, anyone have any ideas?

 

[cinnastix911]

To add to allt his, what is cycling? I may be doing it just not know the name.

 

[Apocalypse_Gold]

Cycling means ensuring that you have sufficient bacteria to break down fish waste ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. If your tank is cycled you shouldn't have any ammonia or nitrite. Check the nitrogen cycle article.

 

[cinnastix911]

Oh, i have had all of my levels checked, and I have a good system in my fish tank that keeps that up. well that's one thing out of the way. But there is stillt hat whole thing around my gouramis fins. It's at that I gues you could call the joints, it looks like it's breaking and... Still need to find camera...

 

[fearlessfisch]

How old is your tank? It would help people respond to your problem more accurately if you could answer the questions in the "sticky" post at the top of this forum.

Welcome to AA.

 

[cinnastix911]

1~ Gourami, "blood-blisters' on joint to tail fin
2~AMonia is 0 and I had all my nitrates and trites checked at the lfs and they said they are normal and fine
3~ 55-60 gallon fish tank been set up for 10 months
4~It's not a backpack... but it needs a pump (airtech2k5) to feed air into it, They are four long pipes going down to filter tihngs at the bottom, air is pumped up the tubs etcet
5~ I have a bunch of guppies, proly 16, 1 paroon shark (4 inches; doesn't igve anyone prblems) 1 priscilla and then another schooling fish, both about the size of a quarter
6~ 20% water change/gravel cleanout yesterday
7~Semi-New fish, had for about 1 month, acclimated them 45 minutes in bag on water, then added a little bit of my fish tnak water let in bag still for another 30 minutes, added a little more and air, 15 minutes let go
8~Nothing new in the tank
9A~ I feed them aquadine nutritional system, no change in diet


I am tihnkinh it is probably just stress though.. but still worried

 

[cinnastix911]

Another problem though, I am treating for ich also, just using heat, and my paroon shark is nearly 3x worse, it's been 5 days on the treatment and he is covered. Could it be too late? Or should I buy a new tank, set it up just to treat him and use medications? It's not so much a speckle on any other fish except for my one of my two kuhli loaches (who I forgot to add to number 5 woops) who only has 4 visible dots. But Yallow (the paroon shark) looks awful. Could stress be making him more susceptible? He is just as old as the gourami in my tank and was acclimated the same way. I had never heard of a qt tank for new fish for 2 weeks before so...


Also, I can tell he is stressed because it keeps pacing back and forth for the whole length of my fish tank constantly, when he isn't stressed out he usualy picks on area and circles it continuously, keeping other fish out of the ring.. When he paces it is very fast and sometimes he crashes into the tank, sometimes. Usually he turns just before the glass but... Still worried.

 

[cinnastix911]

Got a closer look at my kuhli loaches (they were laying by the glass instead of in the plants)and it appear that they have been hit hard on their stomachs. So the only fish that have ich, at least as far as i have seen are my two kuhli loaches and my paroon shark. It is worse on them then before I started the treatment. Is it normal for it to get worse then better or..

 

[talloulou]

I think when you use heat to treat ich, your fish may seem to get worse before they get better because you are basically speeding up the lifecycle of the ich so you can kill it faster.

Are you using salt? Do you keep your tank lights off? Also be sure to do pwc as much as you possibly can to help your fish deal with the high temp. Also did you figure out what was wrong with the gourami? Ich is pretty much an opportunistic disease that attacks fish with an already lowered immune system. Some people think it is commonly caused by rapid drops in temp. For example in the summer if your tank heats up to 90 and you have your heater set for 75. The tank may have a huge temp drop at night. Overtime this temp instability will leave your fish prone to problems like ich.

 

[cinnastix911]

The temperature in our house is usually lower then in my fish tank (house 70-75; fish tank 76-78), so I don't tihnk it's the temp, except right now its 87-89 because I am treating ich. I have been doing pwc nearly everyday to every other day. I have the lights on at about 7 a.m till 8 p.m. Which is around about the natural light right now. I do have a small amount of fish tank salt in my tank because my lfs (at least the one i trust) suggested it for all around things.

But if you speed up the lifeycle that means they would die at the same rate as growth? Wouldn't that mean that it would stay normal? Oh well, I'll assume it's as you say and that it will get worse (as it has) and better in a week or so. if anybody else has ideas or something...

And my gourami, is getting better and worse at the same time I guess you could say... The 'blisters' are gone but now the.. bleeding so-to-speak as moved to more to the tail. If he would just hold still I would take a picture but our digital is very picky.

 

[talloulou]

I would recommend leaving your fish tank lights off while treating the ich. Also I would do 30% pwc daily (be sure to try to keep new water as close to tank temp as possible) and feed slightly less than normal during treatment.

 

[cinnastix911]

I ahve been feeding less... *rushes to other side of room and turns off light* An dI have a thermometer by the faucet were I get my water to refil the tank. *sigh* Now just three weeks of this and I might have almost perfectly healthy fish again.

 

[cinnastix911]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Huge problem. We were talking about the whole it can get worse before it gets better, but now ALL of my guppies have ich! All over their tails. I am so worried now. Someone that has battled this before help me! did it happen to you? Did it get way worse. *bites nails*

 

[talloulou]

How much salt do you have in your tank? You said you always keep a little salt in your tank. But salt works best at helping fish combat disease when the salinity changes from what they are used to....here is a link...

http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/aquarium_salt.htm

maybe a higher concentration of salt would help..

I do believe that the higher temp will cause more fish to get ich and also cause the fish that have ick to get more spots in the beginning. This has something to do with the reproductive cycle of ich.....However as the treatment goes this should improve vastly.

I would keep the lights off, stay with the high temp, and poss add more salt.

 

[fearlessfisch]

Sorry you are having such a bad outbreak.

I was going to ask if you are confident about the accuracy of your thermometer, since just a degree or two below 86 or 87 will only speed up the life cycle of ich without killing the parasites. But it sounds like you are aiming for close to 99, so you should be okay...

The only other thing I can think to add to what Talloulou said, is that you might want to add an airstone or two to the tank to increase surface agitation. Higher temps mean less oxygen in the water, and that can increase stress for fish. If they are as sick as it sounds, any little thing that increases comfort is probably worth trying.

Good luck...please let us know how it goes.

 

[cinnastix911]

I have a wide short tank, instead of a tall narrow one, so I have a greater surface area for osmosis like stuff with air, I hope. What's an airstone? I will addd osme more salt. Usually I put in about 3tbs when I first start the tank and just a little bit after I clean the gravel. My thermometer (the fish tank one) is like a range one, it covers a distance of 4-5 temperatures, the coolest is blue and the highest is a yellow green brown. But I have the blue at 86 right now so I know it's atleast 88. The colors surround the correct temperature.. like an a-bomb eeffect looking thing. And then the one I have for refilling the water goes as low as 75 so I acutally get the temperature somewhere between 85-90 when I refill (is goes by 25 degrees with 5 marks inbetween each number...)

Salt, will do. Is there a timetable for the improvement stuff *helpless sob*. Just loked and now it's on my guppies bodies not just there tails. Is there a point where you know it's too late for some of the fish. I don't want them suffering.

 

[cinnastix911]

Treated the tank with salt for 25 gallons (I am doing a water change here in a little bit so I will just have to add more... (I clean the gravel at the same time))

I probably should have done the salt treatment after I cleaned my tank...

Is an airstone pumus rock?

 

[cinnastix911]

NVM. Looked it up. We used to have one of those long green tube thingies. It doesn't work now... I will call my dad or mom and ask them to pick one up at the lfs

 

[fearlessfisch]

I'm afraid I didn't understand what you wrote about the thermometer...sorry. The important point is that you need to be absolutely sure you are not at 85 rather than 87, because the ich will only multiply faster and will not die. If you are at all unsure about your temps, I would ask one of your parents to pick up a new, clearly marked thermometer along with that airstone.

It should take 4 or 5 days at the higher temp before you will see a reduction in spots. Hang in there. Did you read the excellent article on ich and heat treatments that Allivymar wrote? It is in the articles section here. She also talks about dosing salt, which I have heard is kind of tricky when you are also doing water changes. I have never used salt, myself.

You will have to use your judgment re: euthanization. If the fish aren't lying on their sides or obviously lost cases, I would try to hang on a little longer and see if you get improvement in the next couple of days. I'm glad you will be able to get some bubbles in there. Am I remembering right that you have an undergravel filter and not a hang-on-back? If you have the hang-on-back you could also lower the water level in the tank to get some splashing on the surface, which will also oxygenate the water.

You are doing a great job trying to save your fish. Kudos to you.

 

[cinnastix911]

http://www.all4fish.co.uk/acatalog/1509.jpg

That's a picture of the type of thermometer I have. Not the same brand (I can tell by the logo- I don't know what brand mine is) but I am positive it is above 87 now. I will definitley hang on with my fish. I just really don't want them to be uselessly suffering. The paroon shark is calming down, he is just circling slowly now instead of suicide missions from one side of the tank to the other.

My parents might be capable of getting to the lfs for the supplies I need, but nothing is garanteed, I know I won't even have a chance of getting into town for the rest of the week. But perhaps by then my fish will show signs of getting better... I will search for our old fish tnak back pack. Either that or I will add another thing to my fish tank for air.