Brenna ' s fish room basement build

[brennae]

So I made a trade with another member for fish. He sent his first. They went from St. Louis, MO and not to Chicago like they should have for delivery as promised by the post on Monday, just now they are scanned into freaking Atlanta, GA!!!!!!! I can't wait to get a package of dead fish. Stupid post office. I am I'm no way blaming the seller, I place full blame on the chaos that is our postal system. Anyone know about filing insurance claims with the post office? I'm livid and disheartened. Dead fish crush my soul.

Brenna

 

[PoppaRyno]

Yep... They dont cover livestock. Only the shipping cost.

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[PoppaRyno]

Its a giant PITA to do a claim. Ive still heard nothing about sini and I's angelfish destruction.

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[brennae]

Great. I guess if I want to pay a lot or drive an hour to the FedEx hub I should start using that. My local hub doesn't deal with liquids or live animals unless I get home delivery. I wish we could UPS fish!



Brenna

 

[Laeris]

Brenna, when you know what you're talking about and imparting facts, age is irrelevant. Age does not automatically mean wisdom, experience or magically acquired knowledge. If some codger can't accept reality, that isn't your problem. If someone wants to look down on you because of your age or gender, that also isn't your problem.

Maybe remind them that pretty soon, their doctors will be younger than their children and still know more than they do. Or not. I can appreciate not wanting to create tension.

 

[Eggheadfish]

I use my local ups hub. They charge me idiot prices but everyone seems to get stuff on time intact.

 

[brennae]

I use my local ups hub. They charge me idiot prices but everyone seems to get stuff on time intact.

I didn't think UPS allowed live animals. Will have to check into pricing.

Brenna

 

[sheilak]

brenne s

im still cracking up over the thread yall mentioned earlier .the fw collection. I like to read but im not into a lot of fantasy not here anyway but some posts just crack me up I hope everything comes true for them but hell need 20 000 a year or more just for upkeep gl all keep fishy smellin goin

 

[Eggheadfish]

I didn't think UPS allowed live animals. Will have to check into pricing.

Brenna

It has to be a hub store...the one in my town won't handle them but the one the next town over does. I just called and asked and they told me where the hubs were

 

[brennae]

Ok I'll keep that in mind

Brenna

 

[GreenGo]

May I suggest you go into Poppa's thread and look at the pics of is Mother's Discus. Those are wild fish. The only other one is a "Heckle" Discus which you can look up online as to what that looks like. So if the fish don't look like these in the pics, they are not wild. Wild looking maybe, but not FROM the wild.

And I'm with you Gillie, I prefer the wilds over the domestics. Domestics are a good canvas as to what can be done to an animal through selective breeding and food but I'm more "old school" and like the old ones better. More of a challenge to keep.

I like the wild-caught fish and inverts as well, but there's a point that you need to not cross. If we over-exploit the wild populations for the fish, there comes a time that we won't have any of the fish left and no one will be able to enjoy them.

To me, though, I agree the wild fish are much more beautiful and more of a challenge, but I plan to breed them with only live foods and keep them as wild as possible (as I plan to export them to their wild populations if need be).

As for the water changes, I'm starting to get in the habit of doing them (it's only right since the water is 'changed' constantly in the wild) and it's true that there's much more to reducing nitrates when you change water. There's also growth hormones in the water that causes that stunted growth when it accumulates.

Lastly, the good humor and great advice is why this forum is by far my favorite one and the only one I frequent now. I've been a part of a few forums, but none can compare to this one

 

[PoppaRyno]

What wilds are you doing? And may i inquire abt your steps taken to get an import/export license.

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[Andy Sager]

I like the wild-caught fish and inverts as well, but there's a point that you need to not cross. If we over-exploit the wild populations for the fish, there comes a time that we won't have any of the fish left and no one will be able to enjoy them.

There is such a thing as sustainable harvest which is what they use in the collection of Cardinal Tetras. Wild fish don't have to be exploited to the point of extinction for the aquarium trade. This is on the collectors. They are the ones that have to control their urges for "more" so that there are fish for tomorrow and not just for today. The same thing is going on in the food fishing communities around the world. Those that adhere to it have much better long term results than those who take it all in one swoop. The same could be done for the aquarium fish. HOWEVER, and I apologize to Brenna now as this does get a bit off topic of her thread, the real culprit to fish loss is habitat destruction. This is what is seen not just in the oceans but to land animals as well. There is no sense to saving animals and fish if there is no place for them to grow and live. That's the sad reality of over populations of humans. Look at the rainbow fishes and how many are gone from the wild due to habitat destruction. Same with Borneo and Sumatra. The Amazon is also under attack from farmers. Those who depend on the river for it's sustenance do better upstream from the farming than downstream. Human interference plays such a huge role in the surviveability of the animal kingdom. On a local level, years ago, a constitutional ban of net gear in inshore Florida waters proved that these nets were doing too much damage to the inshore fisheries. In just 1 year, the amount of juvenile fish soared as they were no longer being killed as bycatch to the netters. In 5 years, there was such an abundance of fish on the coasts that further proved the nets were the culprits. The ban stayed in effect and fishing in FL got better. Now, take the Pacific Salmon. Dammed rivers for human use had created a decrease in populations of certain species. Recent removal of the dams has allowed for some to start making a comeback. Need more proof that we are the problem? I've got more.
So again, there is a way, there just needs to be more people to have the willing.

Okay, now back to the thread's topic.

 

[sinibotia]

How about the codfish problem? Years of moratorium on codfishing in New England and they still have not come back- because the trawls destroyed the habitat. Meanwhile what fishery is doing well? Maine lobstah- lobster traps don't damage the ecosystem Well, it's collapsed south of Maine due to climate change but that's just a myth In any case, if I learned anything in my marine policy class it's that nobody ever bothers to listen to the actual sustainable take, unless it happens to be more than we're already taking

 

[PoppaRyno]

Sad fact.... $ comes first to those who should be listening...

Sent from my LGLS991 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Andy Sager]

How about the codfish problem? Years of moratorium on codfishing in New England and they still have not come back- because the trawls destroyed the habitat. Meanwhile what fishery is doing well? Maine lobstah- lobster traps don't damage the ecosystem Well, it's collapsed south of Maine due to climate change but that's just a myth In any case, if I learned anything in my marine policy class it's that nobody ever bothers to listen to the actual sustainable take, unless it happens to be more than we're already taking

" So again, there is a way, there just needs to be more people to have the willing."

Then again, there are those who have learned that when animals are worth more alive than dead, they themselves prosper. I site the Mountain Gorillas as proof. The same can be done with fish if they want it bad enough.

 

[sinibotia]

More people willing, and more people who aren't drinking the kool-aid.... I'll believe it when the southern New England lobster populations come back. And now I'm going to stop getting off topic!

I bet you're all wondering if I prefer wild-caught or tank bred loaches

 

[Andy Sager]

More people willing, and more people who aren't drinking the kool-aid.... I'll believe it when the southern New England lobster populations come back. And now I'm going to stop getting off topic!

I bet you're all wondering if I prefer wild-caught or tank bred loaches

Not sure they can come back until the ocean temps cool off. Just like the fossil coral reefs that were found in the Bering Sea. At some point in time, it was warm enough for them to survive there but they can't now. It's the same thing with the Lobsters and even Corals in the tropics. Look at the populations of lobsters now in the Bay of Fundy. It used to be too cold there for them and now it isn't and there is a larger population of young lobsters there. That has to mean something. No?

 

[GreenGo]

What wilds are you doing? And may i inquire abt your steps taken to get an import/export license.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

I emailed the fish and wildlife service and they provided me the info. I've looked into importing the panther crabs I am doing a breeding project on, but the cost to import is too high for my current situation so I'm going to purchase them from a middle man until I start making enough as a business to be able to afford importing them (it's $186 for live, non-protected imports for the inspection and $279 for live, protected imports for the inspection regardless of the quantity, but it's not feasible at the moment). When I can afford it I'll actually go about purchasing an import/export license and breeding critically endangered species that I'll focus on exporting before selling them in the hobby if it's worth it like Andy said. One that I plan to breed is the Sawarak Crab, also known as the White Claw Borneo Crab in the hobby, which I'll figure out if the habitat can sustain them before I commit to exporting them by traveling there when I can afford it.

There is such a thing as sustainable harvest which is what they use in the collection of Cardinal Tetras. Wild fish don't have to be exploited to the point of extinction for the aquarium trade. This is on the collectors. They are the ones that have to control their urges for "more" so that there are fish for tomorrow and not just for today. The same thing is going on in the food fishing communities around the world. Those that adhere to it have much better long term results than those who take it all in one swoop. The same could be done for the aquarium fish. HOWEVER, and I apologize to Brenna now as this does get a bit off topic of her thread, the real culprit to fish loss is habitat destruction. This is what is seen not just in the oceans but to land animals as well. There is no sense to saving animals and fish if there is no place for them to grow and live. That's the sad reality of over populations of humans. Look at the rainbow fishes and how many are gone from the wild due to habitat destruction. Same with Borneo and Sumatra. The Amazon is also under attack from farmers. Those who depend on the river for it's sustenance do better upstream from the farming than downstream. Human interference plays such a huge role in the surviveability of the animal kingdom. On a local level, years ago, a constitutional ban of net gear in inshore Florida waters proved that these nets were doing too much damage to the inshore fisheries. In just 1 year, the amount of juvenile fish soared as they were no longer being killed as bycatch to the netters. In 5 years, there was such an abundance of fish on the coasts that further proved the nets were the culprits. The ban stayed in effect and fishing in FL got better. Now, take the Pacific Salmon. Dammed rivers for human use had created a decrease in populations of certain species. Recent removal of the dams has allowed for some to start making a comeback. Need more proof that we are the problem? I've got more.
So again, there is a way, there just needs to be more people to have the willing.

Okay, now back to the thread's topic.

sounds like you know your stuff. I'm getting my BS in Conservation Biology and Ecology from ASU and hope to go for my PhD after, but I also plan to be one who studies data deficient species of FW crabs and shrimps and introduces them into the hobby. I will still breed them before I sell them though to ensure there aren't any problems with the wild populations, and I will also monitor numerous wild populations that I do breed, some I will look into breeding, and some others that I'm concerned with/studying and am trying to help rebound from other stressors like habitat loss, etc. That's a different topic though But yeah, all these things are annoying to me (dams, human interference, etc that you mentioned)

Also, you mentioned the populations not coming back until after the oceans cool off, but isn't that reason enough to breed them in captivity and export them when they can survive?

+1 to PoppaRyno about the sad fact

The floor is yours again Brenna, sorry for the off-topic things

 

[sinibotia]

Not sure they can come back until the ocean temps cool off. Just like the fossil coral reefs that were found in the Bering Sea. At some point in time, it was warm enough for them to survive there but they can't now. It's the same thing with the Lobsters and even Corals in the tropics. Look at the populations of lobsters now in the Bay of Fundy. It used to be too cold there for them and now it isn't and there is a larger population of young lobsters there. That has to mean something. No?

Yeah I agree. But I don't want to get too off topic.