By the time I saw the symptoms, it was too late!

[JaimeEB]

My husband and I decided to start a new fish tank maybe two months ago. It's just a 10 gallon starter tank and we plan on working our way up to a 50 gallon over time. We got two African Cichlids ( blue and yellow), a red tailed shark, and a plecostimus all at once to start, and all within an inch of size. Then a couple of weeks later we added two baby Dempseys about a half inch in size. This is just a little history about the tank and the fish.
Anyways, everything has been fine, the fish are bright and colorful and eat vigorously. But just yesterday I noticed that my A-blue cichlid had lost quite a bit of it's color. And this morning when I fed the fish, I noticed the cichlid was very pale and almost appeared to be molting around the gills and in two vertical lines on either side. I tried to find some answers through Google but nothing was definitive. So I set about cleaning the tank and gravel and changing the filter. I waited a little while for the filter to do its work, then replaced the fish. Within the hour, my cichlid died. I'm not sure what could have caused such an adverse reaction so quickly. What could've been the problem? Should I be worried about my other fish?

BTW, it had no white spots and was active up until today.

 

[mfdrookie516]

Welcome to AA

First of all, you have entirely too many fish, and none of them are suitable for a 10g tank (most not suitable in the same tank, no matter how big). All of the fish you mentioned need a 4' tank, with the exception of the pleco. Depending on what type, it may do well in a 20, or require a several hundred gallon setup.

As far as cleaning, why did you remove the fish? Removing the fish when doing a water change is pretty stressful for them.

I'd recommend returning all the fish you have left, and getting some appropriate fish.

Just curious, but what are your water parameters?

 

[JaimeEB]

Thanks for your replay. It's been a whe since I've kept any fish and I suppose I'm not up to date on the latest fish keeping practices, that's why I joined this forum. I appreciate your help very much, but it would be a lot easier to swallow without the condescending undertone. That said.
I understand now that the extra stress that I put on the fish while transferring them may have been more stress than the sick fish could handle. I usually only do a 50% water change. So now I know.
I am planning on getting a 29 gallon tank in the near future, starting with a new stand, then the tank and hood and filtration system, and I just learned about fishless cycling so I'll have an established tank to help the new one along. Then eventually up to a 50. That's just how I've done it in previous years, as the fish grow.
I've never had any problems with the mixture of cichlids and a plecostimus. I've always had cichlids, Oscars and pleco's. The only fish I wasn't sure would work out is the redtail shark. A factor that I only just recently came across in some reading. But I have several other friends who have cichlids, sharks, and pleco's within the same tank without any noticeable issues. From what I've read, its mostly a ph issue for the sharks.
I don't know the parameters of my tank yet, as I said, its a new development for me and the next time I go into town I plan on getting a kit.
Now, I realize that I may have gone about this whole thing blind, without the foresight to educate myself about the best fishkeeping practices before I started keeping fish, but I've never had any problems in the past wih my fish, and the fact that I'm here replying to this post should reflect my interest and devotion to taking good care of my fish. If you could maybe go into more detail why these fish shouldn't be in the same tank together I'm all eyes Good, helpful advise is always wanted.

 

[jcolon]

Welcome to AA

You'll find our members, as evident already, very helpful, knowledgable and sometimes blunt... . Keep in mind, its always in the spirit of benefitting you AND your fish.

IMO - if you want to stay with the fish you listed you could probably skip the 29 gal and go to a much larger tank (assuming there are not other factors involved). In the aquarium world, bigger is actually easier. Larger volume of water allow for more error room. There's practically no such thing as too big a tank for a fish, but definitely too small. Granted you'd have to invest in a suitable stand, more substrate, probably a larger capacity filter ... but if you can make leap to a larger tank ... all the better.

With the exception of the Red Tail Shark ... I do not have any of the fish you mentioned so I'll let more experienced members comment. From what I understand ... they do get BIG. Investing in the API test master kit is a must practically all members of AA recommend .. well worth the cost. As soon as you know your pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates let us know so we can then better guide you.

We want your fish to thrive and for you to have minimal to no heartaches .. though a few are inevitable.

 

[JaimeEB]

Thank's J. I realized after my reply that going through two tank changes wouldn't be the brightest way lol. I don't know why I was stuck on that idea, but sometimes it takes a minute to notice the lightbulb going off.
I've already started my browsing for a larger tank, and may have to get it bit by bit over the next several months. But I will have my big fish tank
I really hope my other fish are safe though. I definitely need to invest in a testing kit. I'm not sure if it was a fungal infection or the water conditions. I'll probably take a sample to the store to have it tested when I go in for the kit.

Thank's again for the advice, it's greatly appreciated.

 

[mfdrookie516]

I apologize if you misunderstood my intent... I definitely didn't mean it any way except constructive.

So to better explain why these fish are not suitable...

The pleco. That could go several ways depending on what type it it. If it's a common pleco, it isn't really appropriate for most home aquariums. They grow very large, a foot or more, and produce a lot of waste. If it is a smaller variety like a bristlenose for example, then a 20-30g tank would be sufficient.

The african cichlids. They require a 4' tank for both swimming room and territory. These are some of the most aggressive cichlids you can have. I used to keep them, and they are a lot of fun. In a 55g tank, you could keep 6 or so comfortably if you stock them appropriately, meaning having the right male to female ratios and keeping compatible fish.

The Jack Dempsey will get monsterous. They need at least a 55g as well, but are not compatible with the africans. They have different dietary needs, aggression levels, and tan requirements. They will get 12" or bigger and really can't have much else with them in the tank.

The red tail shark also needs a 55g tank. They would probably be ok with africans, though it may be hit or miss. They can also be kept in most community set ups, but they need that 4' tank for swimming room. They get some size to them, but not nearly as big as the JD or common pleco.

pH is something that is very overrated IMO. For the most part, just about any fish on the market can adapt readily to any pH you have. As long as you acclimate them appropriately, and the pH is stable, you won't have any issues.

The reason I suggested you take the fish back is because without having the correct tank size, you're probably going to end up with some dead fish. Either the africans or the jd will start killing the other fish because they are cramped and don't have the territory they need to establish. If you're not going to upgrade to a 55g, I would take them all back.. If you do upgrade, I'd decide on either the africans or the JD, as the two shouldn't be kept together.

I have a link in my signature on cycling with fish. It doesn't sound like you cycled the tank prior to adding fish. The reason I say this is because you don't have a test kit. Don't feel bad, we've all been there. My first tank was a complete and utter mess.

 

[JaimeEB]

Thank you m . The 55 gallon it is! I sort of live out in the boonies so online shopping for fish tanks has been a little bit of an uphill battle for me so going into a store and talking with a real person will be helpful. I've been having trouble finding out the different variations of sizes these tanks come in now lol. I just wanted to have some fish again and thought it would be great for our son to learn about them, feeding them, cleaning, and watching them grow. But I never planned on keeping them in just the 10 gallons. For right now there's about 2-3 gallons of water per fish. So I figure that should be ok until I get the new set up. We'll have a lot of fun building a great new habitat for them.
The pet store called my plecostimus a "sail fin" and I'm not sure what category that would fall under. From what I've heard, both the Dempseys and the Africans can be very aggressive. I only have the one African now, but you still have me contemplating going either one direction or the other with my tank. Maybe more towards the Dempseys side since now they're the greater number. Right now they get along just fine, if they're raised together from very small, wouldn't they just be used to each other? Is it just one of those things that could go either way and you wouldn't suggest waiting it out? What fish would you suggest keeping with Dempseys? I'm up for something new and different, I've had oscars, convicts, and barbs before, and just thought I'd build a different community this time. I'd love some ideas
I'm still monitoring the tank mates for any signs and symptoms of what bluey had.

 

[mfdrookie516]

Well, I'm not all that familiar with the dempseys. I kept one a loooong time ago, but that was for a very short period of time... and he was just a baby. I'll wait and let HUKIT comment on them. If you're interested in africans, I can help more. I'd definitely say if quantity is what you're looking for, africans would b the way to go. As far as growing up together, that's really a good thought, but unfortunately not the way it works out. Seems logical, but fish don't always do the logical thing lol.

 

[jcolon]

Is it just one of those things that could go either way and you wouldn't suggest waiting it out? What fish would you suggest keeping with Dempseys? I'm up for something new and different, I've had oscars, convicts, and barbs before, and just thought I'd build a different community this time. I'd love some ideas
I'm still monitoring the tank mates for any signs and symptoms of what bluey had.

From what I know ... young incompatible fish may tolerate each other initially ... however as they age, the natural traits come out and in some of the ones you mention ... territoriality is one of those traits shows. It the same with Red Tail Sharks ... they'll tolerate each other when young, but to keep two in a tank .. you need at LEAST a 55 gal with plenty of plants, caves and logs to provide hiding spots and territories.

You mentioned Barbs ... I'm curious which ones you kept ... I have a mainly Barb tank and I am amazed at the various species in the Puntius genus.

 

[HUKIT]

Well, I'm not all that familiar with the dempseys. I kept one a loooong time ago, but that was for a very short period of time... and he was just a baby. I'll wait and let HUKIT comment on them. If you're interested in africans, I can help more. I'd definitely say if quantity is what you're looking for, africans would b the way to go. As far as growing up together, that's really a good thought, but unfortunately not the way it works out. Seems logical, but fish don't always do the logical thing lol.

Keeping the Jack Dempsey's will be a hit or miss situation depending on the whether or not they're male or female. If they are both male when fish reach maturity it's going to a massacre in there. If both JD's kept they can be housed in a 55g for up to six months and within sex should be able to be determined. Then a tank upgrade from 55g to 90g would be the bare minimum with most ideal situation being a 125g or up. With these guys hitting the 12"+ range it's important to ensure each fish has ample space with at least two ways to brake the line of sight to reduce any possible aggression issues.

Your question regarding tankmates will be determined on what size tank they're in. A 55g won't hold them long so until you hit the 6ft tank size no other fish should even be consider. Jacks are some of my favorite fish but with their size and possible aggression issues they demand space.

 

[MonsterfishGuy]

I agree, i have a couple of JD's, and they are quite big an for american cichlid the are very agressive! Keep with other big american cichlid that are agressive!
Parachromis managuensis
Ptytochromis oligacanthus
Oscar
Lots of cichlasoma are ok
Red devil should be ok but check the JD's! As the red devil is crazy!
If youbdont care about origine, some snake head would be great, the channa orantimaculata, the channa pleurophtalma, the channa lucius... And aome more!

You have the erythrinys erythrinus or red wolf fish who is great too!

I like buf monater fish so if you want more suggestion just ask!

But those fish needs lots of room.

All of those suggestion impose 100 gal on 6' wide min.

 

[MonsterfishGuy]

A good waste manager is the synodontis eupterus in those tank with larger pleco species!

 

[BeavisMom62]

Its a mistake that lots of people make, buying a small tank and filling it up with fish with the intent of buying a larger tank "some day". I made that same mistake. And I thought I was "all that" because I started with a HUGE (LOL) 15 gal tank instead of a tiny little 10 gal tank! LOL! I also made the mistake of trying cichlids as a newbie, but hey I had a 60 gal tank! SHouldn't be hard, right? For me it was! There are so many different kinds with so many different variables, it was too confusing. After losing two, thank goodness my lfs took the rest of mine back. So I know nothing about cichlids, but in my opinion, I at least don't think they are for beginners (or maybe I was just too dumb!). I do have a rainbow shark, which is very similar to a red tail. He's in my 60 gal with angels and other assorted fish. He was fine as a baby, but as he gets older he is definitely more aggressive.

You sort of got started backwards, but many of us have. I've learned to either get fish which are appropriate for the tank you have or get a tank appropriate for the fish that you want. BUt with all of those fish, even if they are small, in a 10 gal tank that isn't cycled, you are going to have a hard time with your water parameters. A test kit and frequent water changes will be your best friends. I too would recommend taking those fish back and getting more appropriate fish for that tank. Even if you get a 55 or larger tank now and start fishless cycling it, it could take another 4 to 6 weeks or more to get it cycled.d That is a long time to keep those fish in that ten gal tank.

 

[JaimeEB]

Thanks guys. This is all definitely a lot to consider. I appreciate all the info. J, I had some tiger barbs. I haven't even begun to count all the different sub-species, I literally only know about two kinds of barbs lol.

 

[jcolon]

Thanks guys. This is all definitely a lot to consider. I appreciate all the info. J, I had some tiger barbs. I haven't even begun to count all the different sub-species, I literally only know about two kinds of barbs lol.

Well if you ever want to go back to barbs, let me know ... I'm just amazed at the various species openly available at LFS's.