Caliban's 46G Dirted Bowfront Evolved

[Fresh2o]

I had spoken to a member of a local fish club and aquatic plant club regarding BBA and she says that she sees an increase in BBA incidents when she neglects regular water changes.
There was a presenter from the same aquatic plant club at the last monthly meeting I attended that mentioned excessive waste (not necessarily fertilizers) combined with light contributed to outbreaks of BBA.


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[Caliban07]

I had spoken to a member of a local fish club and aquatic plant club regarding BBA and she says that she sees an increase in BBA incidents when she neglects regular water changes.
There was a presenter from the same aquatic plant club at the last monthly meeting I attended that mentioned excessive waste (not necessarily fertilizers) combined with light contributed to outbreaks of BBA.


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Ok. You may have a point. I've been running some tests. Let me tell you what I have found.

2 tanks. 1 is this one 46 bow and the other is a 19 litre Betta tank.

19 params
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Kh 3
Ph 7.5
Gh not tested yet
Phosphate 5-10ppm
Tds can't say as aquarium salt skewed readings
Temp 25 degrees
Last water change 3 weeks? Can't remember.

Background: mineralised soil no flow no co2 no ferts. Water is pristine. Full of snails shrimp and Betta. Medium planted. LED lightning on 4 hours on 4 hours off 4 hours on. Fed a few Betta pellets daily. Not a single hint of any kind of algae.

46 bow

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 15
Kh 6
Ph 7.5
Gh not tested yet
Phosphate 5-10
Tds 235ppm
Temp 25

Water change frequent lately.

Background: soil substrate with 4 x turnover flow. Medium planted. T5 lightning on 4 hours on 4 hours off 4 hours on. Fed lots 1-2 times a day. Water has floating particles, lots of crap on the substrate caught in BBA. Could be construed as dirty by some. No mechanical filtration. BBA growing fast and algae forming on glass.


Now if we think about it the algae started in the old setup which was very dirty also. It didn't have the means for waste removal it does now but this hasn't seemed to stop it. The algae was never present in the 19L

Fish and plants are healthy in both tanks but growth is not rapid.

My thoughts are to do some water changes and run some carbon. Reduce feelings and feed more live food. I will run some floss in the filter to remove particles. I'm still going to maintain my less water change routine but I need to reduce the amount of crap going in so that it can be removed at a similar rate by plants.

There seems to be a perfect balance in the 19L tank despite its low maintenance there is just no waste to be seen on the gravel.


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[Fresh2o]

I hope your plan of reduced feeding and increased mechanical filtration works out.


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[Caliban07]

Thanks fresh. I'm hopeful as always. ?


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[Caliban07]

So just to recap.

The only difference between the two tanks is that

1. One tank already had algae present
2. Kh is slightly lower in the no algae tank but that is due to reduced water change.
3. Dissolved wastes are much higher in the one with algae.
4. There are no nitrates in the 19L

The tanks are set up and maintained identically its just that the stock and waste production is a lot higher in the 46 and feeding is significantly heavier.

If I can get the dissolved wastes down via a water change and absorb any new DIC using activated carbon and reduce feeding amount and/or use other foods that don't contribute to water column nutrients as much. I should hopefully starve the algae IF the cause is indeed due to a build up of organics that is.

I know that it is thought that excess nutrients do not cause algae. In a high tech set up this may be the case due to frequent water changes, increased lighting and co2 for faster consumption of nutrients and the chemical state of the nutrients but this may not apply to this kind of tank. The balance is off and I have too much excess waste and nutrients, the break down of which may release a number of chemical reactions that may induce algae. I need to shift the balance in the force.


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[Delapool]

Was there any ferts dosing in tank with algae? Sorry if missed it.

 

[Caliban07]

Was there any ferts dosing in tank with algae? Sorry if missed it.

None at all no. I've done a 40% water change, added activated carbon and fed live food tonight. I'm thinking of culturing so live food. Spot treated so of the algae. Gravel vac'd and removed so BBA with the siphon.


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[coralbandit]

I wonder if any have noted a color preference for where BBA grows besides on plants?
In my 180 it is on anything dark or black.
I mean on the black piece of gravel, but not the tan(all over the tank/my gravel is mixed)??
On dark driftwood(like mopani) but not on my java wood(coffee tree)?
It has been like this for ever with me.
When I seriously attacked it I got it to die off my (black) overflows...
This tank gets religious maintenance(on Sundays!)...

 

[Fresh2o]

Interesting observation on the color preference. Same here for the black gravel and heater holder clips, however, I also see it on the glass drop checker, the white suction cups, the sort of clear hob overflow, and the silver heater. I've been dosing 1:1 glut this past week (not target dosing) and about 95% of it went away.
I don't see BBA in my temp shrimp tank and new shrimp tank. Both of those tanks get ferts just like the planted tank and have medium lighting. However, the amount of food that goes into those tanks is much less (than in the planted tank which has a higher bio load).


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[Caliban07]

Caliban's Dirted 46 Bowfront

I wonder if any have noted a color preference for where BBA grows besides on plants?
In my 180 it is on anything dark or black.
I mean on the black piece of gravel, but not the tan(all over the tank/my gravel is mixed)??
On dark driftwood(like mopani) but not on my java wood(coffee tree)?
It has been like this for ever with me.
When I seriously attacked it I got it to die off my (black) overflows...
This tank gets religious maintenance(on Sundays!)...

Mine is on mostly dark things. Black gravel, driftwood but is also on green plants. Not surprisingly, the wood and gravel is where most of the crud settles.




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[Caliban07]

Interesting observation on the color preference. Same here for the black gravel and heater holder clips, however, I also see it on the glass drop checker, the white suction cups, the sort of clear hob overflow, and the silver heater. I've been dosing 1:1 glut this past week (not target dosing) and about 95% of it went away.
I don't see BBA in my temp shrimp tank and new shrimp tank. Both of those tanks get ferts just like the planted tank and have medium lighting. However, the amount of food that goes into those tanks is much less (than in the planted tank which has a higher bio load).


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Like you I'm thinking higher bioload and increased dissolved organics.

It can't be high phosphate or fluctuating/lack of co2 because the same occurs in the algae free tank. The par is probably something similar too due to tank heights.

I'm just thinking of a statement Made by Walstad in her book on algae. Her statement is 'if you have algae, you have excess nutrients period' it stands out because I know this can't be true due to EI dosing. What I think she is getting at is 'what is going in is too high' basically the balance is off. With excess food and waste comes higher nutrient load but also I'm hypothesising that perhaps the chemicals that are released during waste breakdown stimulates algae growth. It might be the Dissolved organics that are stimulating algae. To maintain the balance without heavy water changing i think less needs to go in. It's just not how walstad seems to work though. He comment was 'I throw extra food in for the plants'




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[Brookster123]

First place I see it is on end and knuckles of branches, 2nd is rock scape. May just prefer a rougher surface?

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[Caliban07]

First place I see it is on end and knuckles of branches, 2nd is rock scape. May just prefer a rougher surface?

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For me it's mainly on driftwood and gravel. It's formed heavily in the crown where the crypts are planted. It forms on dying leaves and older leaves. All sites are either in a state of decay or where fish waste settles and collects. I've just read s thread that I'll have to try to link later that also mentions dissolved organic compounds.

Two questions. Do UV steriliser break down glut and does charcoal adsorb components of glut?


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[Caliban07]

Happy new year everyone! A couple of days ago I changed about 40% of the water. I added a new filter with floss and carbon added. It has a UV steriliser in for good measure. Tank is noticeably cleaner obviously. I spot tread a few tufts of BBA which turned from black to green. I guess that means it's dying. I think my ottos can eat it when it's dying. They seem a lot fuller. I fed some tubifex worm but not feeding any more. It wasn't steriliser and two worms found there way In to the substrate ?

Trying to culture Daphnia and I've been feeding less. Hand feeding my DG means I don't have to put as much flake in.

Can't believe how the hygro has come along that was rescued from another tank. It was about 2cm high with tattered leaves. No doubt the higher light and glut have helped.




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[Caliban07]

Another update. I must say I think this tank has proven a little difficult to make work. After doing further research and thinking things over more and more the problem is obvious and is why the method has been identified long ago and practiced ever since. Carbon injection.

In a tank this size you just can't get enough carbon to appease every plant. My flow is questionable but even then there are too many open areas where carbon is being wasted and too much competition for it. I've been dosing glut and the effects are obvious. I don't think my demands for carbon are as high as most higher light tanks but I can see that it is majorly limiting.

On the flip side, some of the plants were fine with the lower lighting/lower carbon content. Namely the lagenandra and Anubis as well as the crypts but others were struggling. Bacopa was able to cope when it reached the right light intensity but some plants wilted away. The swords shown serious carbon deficiencies and others neither wilted or grew much at all.

Since the addition of easy carbo the sword is sprouting some fresh green leaves. The struggling crypt has new growth coming from the substrate and the hygro polysperma has gone nuts.

I still believe in the soil substrate and fish waste/food supporting nutrients but I don't know how it would hold up if I was to inject as the need for nutrients would be heightened somewhat. I do think it would be enough though.

The other problem is that the organic waste seems to promote algae growth so waiting for DIC to break down to help with natural means of carbon means a pretty dirty tank.

I believe Walstads are better suited to smaller tanks or larger tanks with only a couple of species of plant. Probably why most low tech plants consist of the usual crypts/Anubis etc. The reason the swords in my 19 litre Walstad grew so well I can only attribute to the fact that is too up a third of the tank so it's leaves were in contact with more carbon. It didn't have a great deal of completion either. Since I removed the swords from this tank another species of plant that just didn't grow (or die) had started to grow.

A larger Walstad tank IMO needs excellent flow with little agitation and only a few species of plant. The book does state that these tanks cannot support all plants but you are encouraged to add many different species. Im going to do another smaller Walstad with mainly wisteria and a couple of crypts. It will be adequately lit and have ample flow. They definitely work but when you do them on such a large scale you need to think about things.

Finally, I have to note again that I only suffered with BBA algae in this tank and this algae was ALWAYS present from the off. The new setup did nothing to quell the BBA but it's hard to say if the method would have caused it in the first place. My guess is that will some plants struggling it would have shown up eventually.

For now I'm just gonna keep adding glut until I can figure out where I want to go with this tank. It's badly scratch and I have fallen out of love with the bow front design. I may purchase another slightly smaller, more modern tank in the near future and add soil again trying not to make some of the mistakes I have made and try to adopt some new tactics that I have learned be affective during my experience.


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[Caliban07]

Caliban's Dirted 46 Bowfront

So many typos! Sorry guys. Night all.


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[Laeris]

Aww I'm so sorry it isn't working out the way you'd expected. I know you did everything you could.

 

[Caliban07]

Aww I'm so sorry it isn't working out the way you'd expected. I know you did everything you could.

Thanks. I have tried. I just kind of expected it to work. The more I read the carbon section in the Walstad book the more I realise that it is probably the weakest. She seems to acknowledge that this is thee major problem her 'method' will encounter. There are many things I would do differently next time.


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[Fresh2o]

Chin up! (Fin up?) I think a lot was learned from this adventure. Nothing like making observations first hand.
Not a fan of "dirt" yet, though the amount of detritus in my substrate may come close to it.?


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[Brookster123]

You could add co2? No?

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