"Can water changes be (virtually) avoided?" Explored-

[Cerise]

I'd like to open a discussion on the chemical necessity of water changes.
It would take a lot of careful research but as one from an area that experiences major droughts, gallons upon gallons of weekly water changes becomes ecologically straining.

Theoretically, all that needs to happen for tank water to be sustainable would be:

• Frequent addition of depleteable elements in the water column
• Ample bio-filtration to convert ammonia/nitrite into nitrate
• Ample plant filtration to absorb nitrate

(One can plant filter with the simplest aquaponic tupperware setup if the number of plants in the tank cannot process the nitrate output)
Now, I'm not specially educated in this field and I could be wrong or missing some components of water quality, so what does the community think about this and other possible ways to decrease water changes?

 

[Vic Vega]

My understanding is that the total dissolved solids level would be your breaking point even if you had sufficient biofiltration and plants for toxins, as well as a way to replenish minerals to maintain ph and do whatever other cool stuff I'm sure those fancy things do.

I could be wrong, but I think this is a component of "old tank syndrome" where if quality maintenance and water changes are not done frequently, some of the fish inside may adapt and survive, but any new fish added cannot take the extreme TDS level (even if appropriately acclimated), and a large water change can actually be detrimental to the residents once they've become accustomed.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Cerise]

My understanding is that the total dissolved solids level would be your breaking point even if you had sufficient biofiltration and plants for toxins, as well as a way to replenish minerals to maintain ph and do whatever other cool stuff I'm sure those fancy things do.

I could be wrong, but I think this is a component of "old tank syndrome" where if quality maintenance and water changes are not done frequently, some of the fish inside may adapt and survive, but any new fish added cannot take the extreme TDS level (even if appropriately acclimated), and a large water change can actually be detrimental to the residents once they've become accustomed.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

I forgot about TDS entirely, thank you. As an open question, aren't there high tech methods of neutralizing and... deionizing (I think?) existing water?

 

[Sakana_]

Hello,

our local fish seller/breeder has 3 personal tanks of roughly 300-500 liters, with no filtration, no heater, water changes i think he does something with the water once in few months, completely natural, once went there to buy galaxy rasbora, he kept talking for a while

one of those 3 tanks

 

[Delapool]

"Can water changes be (virtually) avoided?" Explored-

You could hook up an RO unit but that might be cheating?!

I was going to take the for case on this one theoretically but don't have a TDS meter so a little stuck on that one.

Potassium and carbonates would be easy to dose.

Plants or a denitrification filter for nitrates. Lots of plants anyways and under stock fish.

Tank cover to prevent evaporation and top up with distilled water.

But TDS... was looking around on how to reduce that. I don't have an RO unit but say if money was no problem and I worked away for say 6 weeks at a time, maybe that could be plumbed in?


Edit - just saw the high tech solutions bit. Curious on anything there?

 

[mambee]

I thought that RO units waste a lot of water.

 

[keegster803]

My understanding is that the total dissolved solids level would be your breaking point even if you had sufficient biofiltration and plants for toxins, as well as a way to replenish minerals to maintain ph and do whatever other cool stuff I'm sure those fancy things do.

I could be wrong, but I think this is a component of "old tank syndrome" where if quality maintenance and water changes are not done frequently, some of the fish inside may adapt and survive, but any new fish added cannot take the extreme TDS level (even if appropriately acclimated), and a large water change can actually be detrimental to the residents once they've become accustomed.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

That is correct, I had that happen to my first tank when I started out. Did a 50% water change one day, and everything died, sadly I hadn't done a water change on that tank in a year. Poor fish. And that's why you should always do your water changes kids! ?


Sent via echolocation

 

[ScotJudd]

Hi Cerise.
Regular water changing is probably the best known way to sustain constant water parameters. TDS could be a problem but there are a host of other minerals and toxins that are easily flushed by regular small water changes.
Turn the question around, how can you utilise the water removed from my tank, rather than waste it. I put it on the garden and water the indoor plants, they love the nitrites and excess ferts in the water. It's better than tap, no chlorine or chloramine.
Changing tank water can be ecological sound.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Andy Sager]

Hi Cerise.
Regular water changing is probably the best known way to sustain constant water parameters. TDS could be a problem but there are a host of other minerals and toxins that are easily flushed by regular small water changes.
Turn the question around, how can you utilise the water removed from my tank, rather than waste it. I put it on the garden and water the indoor plants, they love the nitrites and excess ferts in the water. It's better than tap, no chlorine or chloramine.
Changing tank water can be ecological sound.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

+1

 

[Delapool]

I thought that RO units waste a lot of water.

There used to be a tank on here that had RO plumbed on the side and automatic water changes (finally remembered it!). Must of gone through an incredible amount of water but I think it might of been in the UK so I'm assuming what I use on the lawn may have gone into this fish tank for water changes.

I see what you mean on water use.

http://www.allianceforwaterefficien...ntroduction.aspx?terms=alternate+water+source

 

[enrgizerbunny]

It's called aquaponics. Possible, not overly practical. I kept 8 goldfish in 70 gallons with no changes for 6 months. Lost one to spawning, one to a feral cat, added a koi mid summer.

Filtration must equal approximate water volume and plants must be sufficient to take up the nutrients, you have to supplement iron and calcium. Greens like kale and lettuce work best. My water was crystal clear and I had very healthy fish.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334256

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Delapool]

Just wondering if you ever tested TDS or anything which might be an issue?

 

[enrgizerbunny]

No. Just observed fish behavior. People have gone much longer with aquaponics without changes. I do believe worrying about TDS is way over complicating for fish. If you've got super sensitive fish, maybe you should worry, but most fish will probably adapt without issue if it's a gradual change. Same for temperature and pH.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Cerise]

Thanks energizer. I am planning for a 900gallon aquaponic system, but new fish will be added consistently so water quality would need to be maintained.

 

[Cecibella123]

Since I started keeping aquariums as a teen more than 30 years ago, many things have changed, especially in filtration and management. But 1 old school thing I still use in all my tanks, including my water garden, no matter the filtration and planted status is under-substrate filters and an air pump. Aside from the fact that I like the way the bubbles look, much solid waste is pulled under the filter where it breaks down. I test water parameters weekly, but on my larger unplanted tanks, I only do monthly water changes of about 20%, and less often in my planted tanks. My small tanks still have to have 30-40% water changes every couple of weeks though.