Cichlids in planted communiy tank options

[aqua_holic]

It's up to you to determine how much room you want to give your fish. I like to give mine plenty of room to swim, since that's all they've got going for themselves.

Look I'm not taking a shot an anyone here, but it's always fascinating to me how much people claim to care about their fish, while providing them with bare minimum tank and school sizes.

 

[JAX3000]

Well said sir...

I completely take your point and I'm still battling with myself over this.

I may see how things pan out until they get big and re-home them, or not take them at all... Or buy a bigger tank! I'll hold off on my decision for now, but thanks for your comment.

One interesting thing's for sure though, I can buy captive bred! I visited one shop who charge £20 each, I asked where they're sourced, they're wild caught. I visited another place where they are 3 for £18! I asked and he proudly stated that they're all captive bred. I can't understand why people would pay more for wild caught when captive bred are available and the species is endangered...!

I've also since been given a few more worries I'd like your opinions on if I may...
- Tiger Barbs may be a problem and I should consider a larger shoal of 15+ or not to keep them at all...?
- The Ellioti will give the Keyholes a hard time...?
- I've also heard the Keyholes and Ellioti should be just fine and in fact the Keyholes may be happier in a group - so 2 pairs of Keyholes and 1 pair of Ellioti...?

I really appreciate your help here.

 

[aqua_holic]

Thank you - we all struggle with providing enough space. Trust me, once you get your big tank, it won't take long before it doesn't seem so big anymore, especially when you put bigger fish in it. I wish my 6 footers were 8 footers, and once I get 8s I'll want 10s....

Yes I would keep 15 or none at all.

Keyholes are very shy fish that should be kept in a group. I don't have experience with them though so I can't say how many is best to get. I'm sure there's a range of good opinions. I've got my eye on them for one of my tanks and plan to get 6. I don't know about the other fish.

I don't think I would mix the keyholes with tiger barbs.

 

[JAX3000]

Hmmm...

I was thinking the Tiger Barbs might bother the Keyholes... I was eyeing up some alternatives again today. The Odessas or Rubys as previously discussed are still high on the list. Today I was wondering about my local fish store and I saw some Neon Ruby Barbs. Beautiful BRIGHT orange! and then I had a thought, what about 5 banded barbs? They're smaller and less aggressive (than Tigers) aren't they? But still a nice size / colour and nice and active.

Then I saw some beautiful dwarf neon rainbow fish that only grow to 6cm and thought why am I stuck on barbs? Would a decent size group of dwarf rainbow fish be happy in there?

I love the idea of a group of Keyholes...!

So, from my original list I'm looking at;
- Changing the Tiger Barbs for something less aggressive and / or keeping more of them
- Changing the RTBS for a Rainbow Shark. (This decision has now been made final by the fact my wife prefers the Rainbow to the RTBS now we've drawn her attention to them!)
- Adding more Keyholes and / or not keeping the Ellioti
- Adding more Ellioti and not keeping the Keyholes...!
- Choosing Polka Dot or Yoyo Loaches, and maybe going for 8 of those... I'm told they'll love that and the shark will ignore them as a larger group.
- Losing the Torpedo Barbs, or at least ensuring they are captive bred and having a plan for when they outgrow the tank.
- Keeping 3 male and 6 female Platys or Swards (If any)
- Bristle Nose probably to take the Pleco role

And I recon that's me for now. A work very much still in progress, but coming together. I'm enjoying planning this so much more than I did planning my wedding...!

 

[aqua_holic]

Dwarf neon rainbows are fabulous fish. They flash a brilliant blue when the light hits them jus right. I had moved their tank closer to the window to get a little more natural light. Their mating behavior is fascinating to watch. In your tank I would keep 5 males and 10 females. They're perfect for your tank size, and will be dither fish or the keyholes. Them swimming about the top part of the tank gives the cichlids some piece of mind knowing there are no threats from above. Rainbows would not preclude you from keeping a school of barbs, so you can keep looking at them. I would go with a smaller more laid back species like cherry barbs.

 

[JAX3000]

Brilliant! The Rainbows are in!

I've been thinking about little other than Barbs lately...! Really though, it's effecting my work...! This is what I'm coming up with...

- Odessa Barb, beautiful (eventually), but I'm told they're pretty aggressive too, get a bit big, prefer acidic cooler water and frankly, don't get my juices flowing...
- Rosy Barb, get even bigger! But you can keep smaller schools of them? And they're Beard Algae hoovers, hardy as hell and very high up my list (although not blown away by the look of a small goldfish - no offence).
- Black Ruby Barb, I've read can be tricky to care for and like dimly lit aquaria - I had hoped for brightly lit. Besides this I think they are a stunning fish, with a great temperament (apparently) who remain a modest size and are therefore a big possibility for me.
- Five Banded Barb - Cute, easy to get along with and small enough to keep a nice large school no trouble, but too shy? A little difficult to acclimatise? If they can settle in and aren't frightened to death, these are another possible favourite.
- Gold Barb, Now these little beauties have really caught me eye. Good natured, small, but not too small, hardy and adaptable. My only worry here is they hang to middle or bottom and I'm going quite bottom heavy already, so don't want them getting in trouble with the big boys on the bottom... Currently my favourite!!!

What are your thoughts...?

 

[aqua_holic]

Gold barbs will be primarily middle swimming in my experience. An excellent choice. They can get aggressive with each other while breeding though, but that's true of most animals is it not?

 

[JAX3000]

Ha! Not me...!

I think I may have found a winner. I think 15 of these guys too, as they tend to stay small and enjoy each other's company...

Thanks again!

You've helped me a great deal...!

 

[JAX3000]

Hi,

Ok, what if I swapped out the Dwarf Neon Rainbow Fish for some Bleeding Heart Tetras..? (Not my idea, my wife's)

And what if I made it 4 x Keyholes 2 x Elliotis and 2 x German Blue Rams or similar...? (Im hoping the Rams being smaller and less aggressive should stay out of the way if introduced last, but I'm concerned the Elliot will push them around for precisely that reason...)

What do you think?

Sorry for all the changes and different scenarios, but I'm trying I get all this out the way before it's too late and I have the fish...

Thanks


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[aquaticterror]

I would introduce your smallest first. Bleeding heart tetra have become exceedingly popular these days- but might I suggest diamond tetra? They are so very underrated and are a magnificent sight to see in bright planted conditions!!!! I would be weary of keyhole cichlids, as many times as I've heard they are peaceful I have had problems with quite a few of my clients' tanks with them getting bigger and more aggressive than expected

what am I doing?

 

[mikem691]

Keyholes are extremely passive until a pair forms and breeding starts. I have 6 juvies in a 30 right now and as soon as a pair forms the other 4 will be rehomed. If you end up with 3 males and 1 female the dominate male will stress the sub males. They will get aggressive when protecting eggs or young but that goes for any sa/ca's

 

[JAX3000]

I'll look into Diamond Tetras, thanks for the suggestion. Should I take it that the a Bleeding Hearts would be ok with the cichlids then?

And re the Keyholes, sorry for not being clear, I planned to bring in more than 4 in the hope that 2 pairs are formed and them remove the rest, so I actually mean 2 PAIRS of Keyholes. (Thought they'd be better off in a bigger group than the larger more aggressive Ellioti.)

Also, nobody's saying I'm mad thinking abut Rams or other Dwarf Cihlids. I was worried the Ellioti would bully them. I know Ellioti often won't tolerate other Ellioti and Rams look a bit like tiny Ellioti... If you think I have space in my 75G (4' x 2') and that the little fellas won't get picked on that's great news.

I guess it makes more sense to bring them in first. Smallest, least troublesome first to give them a head start right?

Thanks for your advice...


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[aquaticterror]

Keyholes are extremely passive until a pair forms and breeding starts. I have 6 juvies in a 30 right now and as soon as a pair forms the other 4 will be rehomed. If you end up with 3 males and 1 female the dominate male will stress the sub males. They will get aggressive when protecting eggs or young but that goes for any sa/ca's

This is what has happened with my clients' tanks, without a doubt. It just seems like keyhole cichlids have a bit more of need for territorial space at spawning time then rams (I know size is the factor there), apistos (another awesome planted community cichlid option), or even Dempseys (can be brutal on plants, dependent on the fish itself).

As for always wanting a bigger tank- you always want a bigger tank (my largest glass aquarium is 10 feet long) and then you look at your electric bill and say to yourself "Gosh that sure is a lot of money" and realize that heating and lighting your tanks are costing you more than feeding your family of 4 each week ?. As with any true obsession, however, there is no voice of reason once you become addicted to large, predatory cichlids.

what am I doing?

 

[aquaticterror]

I'll look into Diamond Tetras, thanks for the suggestion. Should I take it that the a Bleeding Hearts would be ok with the cichlids then?

And re the Keyholes, sorry for not being clear, I planned to bring in more than 4 in the hope that 2 pairs are formed and them remove the rest, so I actually mean 2 PAIRS of Keyholes. (Thought they'd be better off in a bigger group than the larger more aggressive Ellioti.)

Also, nobody's saying I'm mad thinking abut Rams or other Dwarf Cihlids. I was worried the Ellioti would bully them. I know Ellioti often won't tolerate other Ellioti and Rams look a bit like tiny Ellioti... If you think I have space in my 75G (4' x 2') and that the little fellas won't get picked on that's great news.

I guess it makes more sense to bring them in first. Smallest, least troublesome first to give them a head start right?

Thanks for your advice...


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I'll have to do more research on Ellioti as I have no experience with them. I was hoping someone else might be able to answer that one. I have experience with firemouth cichlids, and if these cousins of the ellioti are any clue I'd advise against it, especially with the thought of housing with a Dempsey or convicts- I have a tank devoted to central and south American "frankenfish" rescues that I rehabilitate and rehome and Dempseys, firemouths and convicts are all on the list of notorious crossbreeeders and firemouths have a nasty disposition when breeding

what am I doing?

 

[JAX3000]

Thanks, I'll start a new thread on this as it's getting lost in my old topic...
Cheers


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