classroom setting up 10 gal. QT this afternoon

[themartins]

Here are today's test results (10-24-11).

10 gal
pH 7.8
ammonia 0 (added 5 drops ACE ammonia)
nitrite 1
nitrate 80
salinity 1.025
temp. 75 F

30 gal.
pH 7.8
ammonia 1 (added 15 drops Ace Ammonia)
nitrite 1
nitrate 20
salinity 1.025
temp. 81 F

It looks like we may have only a couple more days left on the 10 gal. being cycled. What do you think? - being patient, but fish this weekend would be nice!

 

[rdnelson99]

Hard to tell from the pictures but in the 1st and 3rd pictures I think I see feather dusters at the top of the rock. If there is a white tube that they are coming out of I bet that is what they are. That is a good thing.

 

[Yash]

Looking good. In the second pictures do I see a lot of bubbles or is that just the reflection from the light? Bubbles should be avoided.

Are bubbles bad? Why?

 

[themartins]

We're glad to know that they're probably feather dusters. We were afraid that they might possibly be aipastia anenomes. What do you think the round things growing on the rock are in picture #2?

 

[rdnelson99]

Not sure on the round things in Pic 2. I have never seen that before. Yash, not entirely sure why but yes, bubbles are not a good thing in a SW tank.

 

[themartins]

We've been wondering/struggling about the bubble issue too. I know that air bubbles are definately wanted in FW; as the air bubbles burst at the surface it creates a gas exchange and allows more oxygen saturation in the water. In SW I know that sponges can not be exposed to air or they will die, wondering if that's more the reason.? Not sure.... Some used to think that micro air bubbles would get trapped in a fish's gills or cause pop eye, but that's not the case - pop eye is usually caused by poor water quality issues - mainly an ammonia spike. I've also heard that saltwater is more dense, therefore has less oxygen so I would think that you need at least some air bubbles for gas exchange or fish can actually suffocate.? Not sure about that either, though...just makes some sense to me. Air bubbles in SW make it harder to see, as well and doesn't look great in photos. I need to definately dig a little deeper on this one, those are just some of my thoughts on the issue.

Does anyone else have knowledge or thoughts on this air bubble in SW issue?

 

[Wy Renegade]

Here is today's update and a few more questions that we have.

Should an ammonia spike of 2 or 3 ppm be enough to establish beneficial bacteria?

We're also starting to talk about and research what fish and invertebrates we'd like to add once it's cycled. Do you have any suggestions for hardy beginner fish or invertebrates?

Also, should we keep the 10 gal. as a QT to hold any purchases before adding them to the 30 gal.? The 10 gal only has incandescent lighting, so we know that it's not effecient and we won't be able to have corals in that one. Maybe sometime in the future it could become a sump or fuge for the 30 gal? If we were to do that what would we need?

An ammonia spike of that level will be suffient. However, if you wish to keep more of your existing life alive on the LR, you should try and keep ammonia levels below 1ppm. This is called a soft cycle, and while it makes the whole cycling process take longer, it ensures the survival of much more of the living microorganisms that you paid for when you bought the LR.

As far as fish and invertes, do some research on what your ultimate goal as far as the tank itself is. You mentioned corals, do you plan on soft, hard, or mixed corals. Often the corals will dictate which fish/invertes are appropriate for you system.

Are bubbles bad? Why?

We've been wondering/struggling about the bubble issue too. I know that air bubbles are definately wanted in FW; as the air bubbles burst at the surface it creates a gas exchange and allows more oxygen saturation in the water. In SW I know that sponges can not be exposed to air or they will die, wondering if that's more the reason.? Not sure.... Some used to think that micro air bubbles would get trapped in a fish's gills or cause pop eye, but that's not the case - pop eye is usually caused by poor water quality issues - mainly an ammonia spike. I've also heard that saltwater is more dense, therefore has less oxygen so I would think that you need at least some air bubbles for gas exchange or fish can actually suffocate.? Not sure about that either, though...just makes some sense to me. Air bubbles in SW make it harder to see, as well and doesn't look great in photos. I need to definately dig a little deeper on this one, those are just some of my thoughts on the issue.

Does anyone else have knowledge or thoughts on this air bubble in SW issue?

Bubbles in and of themselves are not bad to my knowledge. However, they reduce visability in the tank and they greatly increase the salt creep (build up of white precipitate on the outside of the tank around where the bubbles come to the surface). Skimmers actually relie on the creation of bubbles to move proteins to the surface and skim them off.

Thumbs up to you all for choosing the set-up a saltwater tank as part of your education. You have a grand and exciting adventure ahead of you.

 

[themartins]

If we're going with a soft cycle, to keep most of our living organisms living ... How would it be to add Purigen and Chemipure Elite to our canister filter along with the live rock rubble we have in there now?

We're interested in thoughts and oppinions on this filter issue as well.

 

[Wy Renegade]

If we're going with a soft cycle, to keep most of our living organisms living ... How would it be to add Purigen and Chemipure Elite to our canister filter along with the live rock rubble we have in there now?

We're interested in thoughts and oppinions on this filter issue as well.

From what I've read on Purigen, I would say that is an excellent choice assuming that your canister filter is chambered so that it can be kept seperate from the LR rubble. Purigen needs to be rinsed periodically, so you're not going to want to mix the two. As for the chemipure elite, I'm afraid I can not comment as I know nothing about it myself.

Here is a link to an excellent article on the process of soft cycling written by a friend of mine;
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f14/soft-cycling-the-saltwater-aquarium-175485.html#post1609273

 

[themartins]

Does anone use Chemipure Elite? Do you use it along with Purigen?

 

[rdnelson99]

I am no expert in any stretch of the imagination but, I am going to do my to keep it simple and natural. My fear is that as soon as you start dosing chemicals for one thing you are throwing something else off. I have never been very good at juggling so whenever possible, I will rely on water changes.

 

[themartins]

I agree on the water changes. I know that some of the chemical filtration companies tell you that you can use their product and never have to do water changes for an extended period of time. I think they try to lure in people with those claims. I tend to think small, frequent water changes are super important regardless of what is used for filtration. I have been a little lax with our FW tanks since starting up the new SW tanks for our research, but I usually change out 1/4 of the water twice per week. I know some people hate the work of water changes; however, it only takes me 30 minutes twice a week for all 3 FW tanks.

 

[themartins]

Today's update. Cycle is going very well. 10 gallon is almost there and 30 gallon isn't far behind.

10 gal.
pH 7.8
ammonia 0 (24 hours after dosing to 4ppm)
nitrite 2
nirate 80
salinity 1.030
temp 76 F

30 gal.
pH 7.8
ammonia 0
nitrite 5
nitrate 80
salinity 1.025
temp 80 F

 

[rdnelson99]

Getting close. When both ammonia and nitrite is 0 after 24 hours you are good to do you PWCs and start stocking.

 

[themartins]

The cycle is going great. Yes, getting close just still waiting for the nitrites to start dropping.

Here are today's test results and we have a couple of questions at the end.

10 gal.
pH 7.8
ammonia 0
nitrite 2
nitrate 160
SG 1.025
temp 76 F

30 gal.
pH 7.8
ammonia 0
nitrite 5
nitrate 160
SG 1.025
temp 82

This is the 3nd day in a row of 0 ammonia for the 10. Very exciting for us! We're just waiting for the nitrites to start dropping. We haven't seen any life at all in the 10, so not as concerned on the dosings and readings. We'll continue to add the 35 drops of Ace ammonia brings that brings the 10 gal. to 4ppm each day and just wait out full the cycle.

We did a small (4 gallon) water change on the 30 to help bring some of the nitrates down and dosed 1 drop per gal. of the Ace ammonia to keep feeding the beneficail bacteria.

D saw a small (1/4") white shrimp last night hanging out by some white base rock. Any idea what it might be?

I've been hearing clicking/snapping at night when the lights are off. Any idea on that?

Should the temp. on the 10 gal. be closer to 80? (I know not as important now, but want to make sure we're ready for fish/snails when the time comes.

Should we turn the temp down on the 30?

Is it ok to add a small amount of baking soda to bring the pH up to 8, or is 7.8 OK? Are there any other ways to bring the pH up a little? - maybe some crushed coral in the filter?

We're planning on ordering the lighting upgrade on Friday for the 30. The 10 only has incandescent, so we know it's not effecient - but also, the light stopped working. Are there LEDs that can screw into the socket? That would save a little $ over purchasing a new hood. Or would a basic T8 flourescent be better? - planning on just keeping it QT/FOWLR.

 

[Wy Renegade]

D saw a small (1/4") white shrimp last night hanging out by some white base rock. Any idea what it might be?

Most likely a amphipod

I've been hearing clicking/snapping at night when the lights are off. Any idea on that?

Likely a mantis shrimp, you're going to want to remove it if you can, as it will be hard on both corals and shrimp. Some people do run a dedicated mantis tank however.

Should the temp. on the 10 gal. be closer to 80? (I know not as important now, but want to make sure we're ready for fish/snails when the time comes.

temp should be around 78 on both tanks

Should we turn the temp down on the 30?

Is it ok to add a small amount of baking soda to bring the pH up to 8, or is 7.8 OK? Are there any other ways to bring the pH up a little? - maybe some crushed coral in the filter?

pH of 7.8 is actually fine, you can add baking soda if you desire or crushed coral, but keep in mind this will most likely be a constant add.

We're planning on ordering the lighting upgrade on Friday for the 30. The 10 only has incandescent, so we know it's not effecient - but also, the light stopped working. Are there LEDs that can screw into the socket? That would save a little $ over purchasing a new hood. Or would a basic T8 flourescent be better? - planning on just keeping it QT/FOWLR.

A flourescent is better than an incandescent, and a t5 or t8 is better than both. However, on a quaratine tank light is not all that important. In your case you might want a little better lighting to show off the fish.

 

[themartins]

Thank you for answering our questions, also for the suggestion.

 

[themartins]

Any suggestions on how we can locate and remove the mantis shrimp?

Here are today's test results. We also ordered the Coralife t5 lunar fixture and a glass canopy.

10 gal.
pH 7.8
ammonia 0
nitrite 5
nitrate 160
SG 1.025
temp. 74 F (switching heaters today with one of the FW tanks)

30 gal.
pH 7.8
ammonia 0
nitrite 5
nitrate 40
SG 1.025
temp 82 F (turning down the heater)

 

[themartins]

Last night we tried to trap the posslible mantis shrimp with a homemade bottle trap baited with a raw shrimp, but was unsuccessful.

Here are today's test results. I think the cycle is possibly stalled because the nitrite levels haven't moved. Do you have any suggestions on how to get the nitrite moving? Would a water change help?

10 gal. (2 bristle worms spotted last night)
pH 7.8
ammonia 0
nitrite 5 (is the cycle stalled?)
nitrate 160
SG 1.025
temp 84 F (turned heater down)

30 gal.
pH 7.8
ammonia 0
nitrite 5 (is the cycle stalled)
nitrate 40
SG 1.025
temp 81 (turned heater down again)

 

[themartins]

Today's test results. The 10 gal. is almost there! We had a cool field trip this morning to the ocean and then a trip to our favorite LFS to look around. I know we're not quite ready for fish, so being patient for the cycle to be complete. Our LFS will special order things for us, so they're looking into if they can get in a mated pair of ocellaris clowns for us when we're ready.

10 gal.
pH 7.8
ammonia 0
nitrite .25
nitrate 80

30 gal.
pH 7.8
ammonia 0
nitrite 5+ off the charts (water change later to hopefully bring it into a readable range on the test)
nitrate 80

We had a fieldtrip to the ocean this morning to look in tide pools. We all had lots of fun and came home with a few empty shells for possible hermit crab shells. We saw 3 small Eastern starfish, a crab that burried himself in the sand, lots of periwinkles, hermit crabs, a 1/2 shelled clam that had stcuk itself onto a rock, worms, live sand dolars; and of course, lots of rocks, empty shells, bones, seaweed, driftwood, and other things that had washed up onto the land. A really cool field trip!