labidis
Aquarium Advice Activist
Has anyone experienced high levels of CO2.
Should i be concerned?
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Should i be concerned?
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Co2 seems high
- Thread starter labidis
- Start date
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Brookster123
Aquarium Advice Addict
Ya. How high?? It can/will kill your stock
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OP
OP
labidis
Aquarium Advice Activist
Well not entirely sure now actually. According to aqua one test kit, its high yellow colour, and according to the below link graph, i'm way low.
Ph is 7.4
Kh/Gh is 3
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html
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Ph is 7.4
Kh/Gh is 3
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html
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Brookster123
Aquarium Advice Addict
If your ph is above 7 than it can't be all that high?? Are you injecting pressurized?
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OP
labidis
Aquarium Advice Activist
No, im not using any chemicals or pressurisers.
I think the stupid tester has issues... Aqua one testers are pretty useless.
How do u work out your co2 ?
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I think the stupid tester has issues... Aqua one testers are pretty useless.
How do u work out your co2 ?
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Brookster123
Aquarium Advice Addict
Ok, you're referring to a ph test? In which case 7.4 is perfectly fine for a broad range of aquarium species.
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jrc0528
Aquarium Advice Activist
Did your test indicator instruct you to use tank water + indicator drops, or a special 4dkH solution in it? The proper way to monitor the CO2 level is to buy a drop checker (there are many out there from simple glass U tubes to fancy setups with plastic and O-rings) and use the 4dkH solution + the indicator drops.
You've already seen the charts, like you linked to... Look at the chart and find the 4dkH row, looking across you'll see that 15-30ppm puts you at about 6.6-6.8 pH. Now look at your standard pH test kit, the indicator is blue higher than 7 and yellow below about 6.4. The indicator solution is just pH indicator!
If you used tank water the charts no longer apply as the color now depends on the kH and any other buffers present, rendering the drop checker useless. I buy 4dkH buffered water and add a few drops of pH indicator.. works perfect. You can also verify that your 4dkH water is indeed by using your kH test kit on the solution if you don't mind using up 5mL of it!
You've already seen the charts, like you linked to... Look at the chart and find the 4dkH row, looking across you'll see that 15-30ppm puts you at about 6.6-6.8 pH. Now look at your standard pH test kit, the indicator is blue higher than 7 and yellow below about 6.4. The indicator solution is just pH indicator!
If you used tank water the charts no longer apply as the color now depends on the kH and any other buffers present, rendering the drop checker useless. I buy 4dkH buffered water and add a few drops of pH indicator.. works perfect. You can also verify that your 4dkH water is indeed by using your kH test kit on the solution if you don't mind using up 5mL of it!
OP
OP
labidis
Aquarium Advice Activist
I used a few different methods to try to work it out.
The first method was aqua one tester
My tester colour came out yellowish, so i assume its high - see pic
The chart is still quite confusing. Anyone used this before?
The second method was to check my ph and kh using my tank water, and use the below link graph.
I tried it again today and my ph was quite low compared to last week and so was my kh
Ph6.4 and kh 2 - natural lighting used this time to compare colours.
According to my last krib (link) test , my co2 is at 24mg/l, which is quite good
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html
Too many tests, too many discrepancies.
Maybe i should just work on visual appearance of the tank and do my routine water changes and be done with it.
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The first method was aqua one tester
My tester colour came out yellowish, so i assume its high - see pic
The chart is still quite confusing. Anyone used this before?
The second method was to check my ph and kh using my tank water, and use the below link graph.
I tried it again today and my ph was quite low compared to last week and so was my kh
Ph6.4 and kh 2 - natural lighting used this time to compare colours.
According to my last krib (link) test , my co2 is at 24mg/l, which is quite good
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html
Too many tests, too many discrepancies.
Maybe i should just work on visual appearance of the tank and do my routine water changes and be done with it.
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OP
OP
labidis
Aquarium Advice Activist
Ph and kh was determined via tank water results using API test kit
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OP
labidis
Aquarium Advice Activist
Since my last post, my co2 tester which had been in my tank for a few hours is showing normal co2.
**** testers !!
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**** testers !!
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bcarl_10gal
Aquarium Advice Addict
I run my drop checker at a distinct yellow and have not seen any issues with fish. I have also accidentally gassed all my fish in a tank before due to some malfunction with the needle value. Long story short i think you can push CO2 pretty high but do it slowly so the fish can adjust to the pH change.
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Brookster123
Aquarium Advice Addict
This seems like a lot of "for nothing" if you don't inject co2? Your kh seems ok, your ph is fine?? Why not just get a standard test? What's the point of a drop checker? Am I missing something here??
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jrc0528
Aquarium Advice Activist
Labidis,
It appears that one VERY important note is missing from the instructions on your drop tester. It typically takes 2-3 hours or more for the indicator solution to balance out with the tank's CO2 levels. This explains why the reading changed several hours later.
As to the pH-kH charts, they are a good starting point, but assume that you don't have any other major players in the equation. The charts rely on the fact that as your buffering capacity increases, the pH will change less for a given amount of CO2. The major buffer in your tank will be the carbonate hardness as indicated by the kH test kit. I did quite extensive research prior to switching to CO2 injection, part of that was learning that other trace chemicals/elements can skew the readings from the charts. The pH-kH test assumes that the carbonates are the only buffers affecting pH when the CO2 is added. There are a few other compounds that can also act as buffers in the tank (I don't remember right off what they are) and the kH test won't take these into account. This means that you may have MORE buffers (but not less) than indicated by the kh test, and so your pH level could indicate a higher level of CO2 than the chart would indicate. Also, there may be a non-CO2 related influence on your pH that is independent of the kH buffering.
A good initial test is to check your CO2 using the pH-kH charts BEFORE you begin CO2 injection. With normal aeration in a tank and no injected CO2, the water will balance out at 3-4ppm CO2. Knowing this, you can run the pH-kH test and compare your results to this baseline. You'd now have to discontinue injection and aerate for several days before attempting this baseline.
A drop checker eliminates these uncertainties entirely by using a controlled test solution that is kH buffered to 4dkH with no other buffers present. This solution is coupled to the tank via an air coupling, so that the CO2 in the tank water freely moves to the indicator solution and vice-versa, but other impurities cannot. This water-air-water coupling is the reason you have to wait a few hours for a reading. The greater the surface-area to volume ratio of the tester the faster its response will be (this is why most testers use a rather shallow chamber for the indicator solution).
A side note (and why I asked earlier) some tester kits provide the indicator drops (pH test indicator) and instruct you to use tank water + drops in the tester. As you now know, these cannot be accurate since there is no way to know the exact buffering capacity of your tank water. Your drop checker is one of these using aquarium water, but no fear; you can buy the 4dkH test solution on eBay or other online aquarium suppliers. Simply fill your checker to the indicated line with the solution and you're good to go.
NOTE: You can get the 4dkH solution WITHOUT the indicator (will be clear), to this you add a couple drops or normal range pH indicator. If the solution already has a green or blue color it includes the indicator and is ready to use without additional drops.
It appears that one VERY important note is missing from the instructions on your drop tester. It typically takes 2-3 hours or more for the indicator solution to balance out with the tank's CO2 levels. This explains why the reading changed several hours later.
As to the pH-kH charts, they are a good starting point, but assume that you don't have any other major players in the equation. The charts rely on the fact that as your buffering capacity increases, the pH will change less for a given amount of CO2. The major buffer in your tank will be the carbonate hardness as indicated by the kH test kit. I did quite extensive research prior to switching to CO2 injection, part of that was learning that other trace chemicals/elements can skew the readings from the charts. The pH-kH test assumes that the carbonates are the only buffers affecting pH when the CO2 is added. There are a few other compounds that can also act as buffers in the tank (I don't remember right off what they are) and the kH test won't take these into account. This means that you may have MORE buffers (but not less) than indicated by the kh test, and so your pH level could indicate a higher level of CO2 than the chart would indicate. Also, there may be a non-CO2 related influence on your pH that is independent of the kH buffering.
A good initial test is to check your CO2 using the pH-kH charts BEFORE you begin CO2 injection. With normal aeration in a tank and no injected CO2, the water will balance out at 3-4ppm CO2. Knowing this, you can run the pH-kH test and compare your results to this baseline. You'd now have to discontinue injection and aerate for several days before attempting this baseline.
A drop checker eliminates these uncertainties entirely by using a controlled test solution that is kH buffered to 4dkH with no other buffers present. This solution is coupled to the tank via an air coupling, so that the CO2 in the tank water freely moves to the indicator solution and vice-versa, but other impurities cannot. This water-air-water coupling is the reason you have to wait a few hours for a reading. The greater the surface-area to volume ratio of the tester the faster its response will be (this is why most testers use a rather shallow chamber for the indicator solution).
A side note (and why I asked earlier) some tester kits provide the indicator drops (pH test indicator) and instruct you to use tank water + drops in the tester. As you now know, these cannot be accurate since there is no way to know the exact buffering capacity of your tank water. Your drop checker is one of these using aquarium water, but no fear; you can buy the 4dkH test solution on eBay or other online aquarium suppliers. Simply fill your checker to the indicated line with the solution and you're good to go.
NOTE: You can get the 4dkH solution WITHOUT the indicator (will be clear), to this you add a couple drops or normal range pH indicator. If the solution already has a green or blue color it includes the indicator and is ready to use without additional drops.
Brookster123
Aquarium Advice Addict
(Drops penny down the well and waits for the splash) anyone down there?!?!
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OP
OP
labidis
Aquarium Advice Activist
Yes, this explains the colour change a few hours later. I'm no injecting at the moment, more curious as to how the kits work.
Thanks alot for the feedback, will have to read it a number of times before it sinks in.
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Thanks alot for the feedback, will have to read it a number of times before it sinks in.
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Brookster123
Aquarium Advice Addict
Unfortunately this kit is really geared towards a co2 injected tank.. if your tank swings enough to register major change in a dc than we have problems and we should work on it! I can appreciate other embers wanting to share their vast knowledge if this process but it really is not worth your time unless you are going injected.. you should really be testing your ph with a liquid test tube kit,.same for the rest of your parameters.. i watch my diffuser launch millions of microbubbles into.my tank daily, at the end of the injection period the drip checker has gone from a blue to light/lime green. This tells me my water has now become saturated with co2, if it goes yellow that means there is far to much and the fish are at danger. My kh is in a good range for this absorbtion. Lucky me! The plants will tell you when they've had enough as well by releasing excess oxygen or "pearling"..YouTube it, spectacular really!
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