Come on Baby Light my Tank

[zipped]

Sorry for the Door's lead in...
Nice forum, finally writing instead of hanging out in the shadows.
Appreciate any commentary you can provide

Okay, background is:
50 long gallon freshwater tank (48x13x19) (contemplating just picking up a 55 gallon 48x13x21 for the extra water volume...)
african cichlids
decorative gravel (no other substrate)
Rena XP3 filter
PH is a stable 7.5 (I know, not the ultimate for cichlids, but seems to work for good for my fish)
Light is (2) all-glass24 inch 18W bulbs which I think I bought with the tank.
The black plastic pieces with the doors to pull up for feeding is what the lights currently sit on.

In addition to improving aesthetics (general color of light in the tank) I am planning to plant a few of Java ferns, annubias, and possibly other plants that can survive my little predators. I have kept my plastic garden alive and looking good so now ready to up the challenge.

I have spent many, many, too many, hours reviewing various forum searches and am pretty up to speed in regards to the types of lighting available, bulb colors/ratings, par ratings, problems with too much light, CO2 injection, etc.

I have determined that likely a low wattage pc or T5 is likely where I am going (no CO2, minimize algae, size) - contenders are:
Coralife 130W Power Compact:
48" 2x65W Coralife FRESHWATER Aqualight Hood, 2x 6,700K Lamps* - AquaCave
Current USA 130W Power Compact:
48" 2x65W Satellite PC Fixture by Current USA* - AquaCave
Current USA T5 108W
48 inch Current USA Nova Extreme 2x54 watt T5 HO 10K/Freshwater (Freshwater Aquarium Supplies > Lighting > Fixtures > T5 Lighting )

What I don't see discussed much heat production occurs in regards to these lights. A couple of those have a built in fan, some don't. I would prefer to place the light across my current spread (the black covers with the plastic windows) but am worried about heat. I can always pick up the plain glass covers however I have read a few (I am guessing very isolated) stories about glass covers that cracked / fell into the tank relative to heat.

I am curious with the wattage / heat production of these bulbs - is one better than the other. T5's are supposed to run cooler, but this one shows it has a fan. In this config is a PC better than a T5?
If possible, I would like to avoid products with fans (due to noise) - example, the aqualight says it can be laid on the glass canopy. Do I have to use the mounting hinges I see on other products or are those optional? I want to keep my top of my tank as low profile as well as dark as possible. (not having light elsewhere beyond what is in the tank itself)

So what have you experienced in regards to these type of lights?
Thanks so much!

 

[neilanh]

Are you referring to heat within the fixture, or worried about the heat from the light heating the water column? Neither of these do I think is a big deal, but I do run my tanks open top.

What I am worried about is the amount of light you're talking about without supplementation and/or CO2. 130W puts you at nearly 2.5WPG, and at that level I fear you're going to have algae nightmares. The 108W is a better solution, obviously, but I would consider getting a dual bulb T8 48" fixture maybe. The 48" dual fluorescent like this one might be a better solution. 2 40W bulbs would put you at around 1.5WPG, which is plenty for the plants you listed still.

Another option with the CF is to get mixed bulbs, run 1/2 of the light actinic. Doesn't do squat for the plants, but it'll make your colors in the fish pop, and reduce the lighting over your tank to an easier to maintain level.

Or, there's always the other alternative. Cross over to the dark side and go heavily planted with CO2, but I imagine your inhabitants would make that more of a PITA by uprooting everything.

 

[JustOneMore20]

Welcome to AA!


If you are just wanting low light plants (like Java fern, Anubias) then you don't need 130w of light. That much light is going to lead to some serious algae issues because low light plants are very slow growing.

You could get away with a double fluorescent fixture that equals about 80 watts. That would be fine for the plants you are wanting.

Most stem plants will be devoured by Africans unless you have high light, co2, and dose ferts to keep them growing fast. Swords may be eaten or dug up....or both. Vallisneria should work, unless they get dug up. They would grow nicely under an 80w fixture.

edit: neilanh was posting the same time I was. I was going to suggest getting an actinic bulb. Since the bulbs are end to end, half of the tank would look blue and the other greenish/yellow, so that would look weird IMO. Getting 2 50/50 bulbs might be fine though if all you want is Anubias and Java fern. 50/50 bulbs are half actinic and half 10000K.

 

[Purrbox]

Neilanh and JustOneMore20 have already given you some great advice. With any of the new lighting options you'll need to replace that plastic canopy with a glass canopy, a wooden canopy, or run it open top. The reason is that your current canopy will block much of the light and would likely be warped by any of the fixtures that run on the warm side. I wouldn't worry overly much about the glass canopy breaking, as far as I can tell it is a very rare occurance and usually involves something getting dropped on it. Either using the optional legs for the fixture or DIY something (cut PVC, etc) to raise the fixture some will help to reduce issues with fixtures that heat the water column.

Unless you think you might want to go higher light in the future or find a really great deal on one of those fixtures, then the Double Strip Light that's been suggested is probably your best bet.

 

[zipped]

Thanks for all speedy replies!!! Wonderful and appreciated!
The more I read, the more questions these evil fingers devise...

I have read the Java ferns and anubias aren't the Big Mac of the cichlid world - if they are tied down, the little beasts won't really eat them like other plants (not so tasty). Once tied down, they won't get dug up or moved around as 'lids play house and dig. Is that true?

As to the fixture you referenced, guess I am a little sad...I see those reef tanks and love clarity and the colors given off by the 10k/ mixed bulb offerings and drool.
I see from the link (thanks btw!) I could order 48" T8's in 10k and 6700k - anyone seen how these look over their tank? I am guessing I might have too high expectations from the reef tanks...Otherwise, guess from your input, even the 108 is a bit much for the tank (unless I move to a the true 55? lol)

The actinics give great color to the fluorescents of the fish - I would love that. Can anyone verify (again, reading the forums, sometimes hard to gather fact from fiction) if you use an actinic bulb or a 50/50 bulb, do you still run into the algae problems? Supposedly plants use the the regular bulb(say 6700k bulb) while the algae benefits by using both the 6700k and the actinic wavelengths for growth. I would like to use the 50/50 combo just for the fish colors, but if the algae is an issue, then say la vie...


I travel a lot during the week and have no experience with CO2, not even the diy yeast/soda bottle injection version. I haven't done research into a true pressurized system, took a glance at a $250 system, but that was it. Not being there on a daily basis, I would tend to worry about returning from a trip to fish soup. That would be my luck... Are the CO2 systems self sufficient or a complicated equation involving fish mass, light, plant load, and daily maintenance? I know I shouldn't ask, wife will shoot me if I come home with more gear...

 

[Purrbox]

It's commonly agreed by most that actinics don't contribute to algae nor to plant growth. So you could go with those for part of your light to help bring out the fish color.

CO2 setups generally have a bit of a break in phase, but once set they don't need to be messed with for months (when the cylindar needs to be refilled). Basically you just aim for 30ppm CO2 and then leave it alone. A simple drop checker will allow you to check your levels at a glance with using a KH reference solution instead of tank water.

 

[zipped]

Thanks Joy - interesting. Do you have a recommendation of a setup that would work (link or name of a particular kit?) Lots more reading time ahead...
More gear *devilish* grin

 

[Purrbox]

I personally prefer Rex Griggs setups. He'll custom build whatever you need. Since I'm feeding CO2 into three aquariums from a single setup, the price was roughly the same as other sites.

First thing to do is figure out what type of setup you want. There are three basic types.
Manual - This is your basic setup with no automation, just a regulator, needle valve and cyclindar. CO2 is injected 24x7.
Semi-Automatic - This is your midrange setup with the same things as the Manual but with a selanoid to allow you to control the CO2 on of electronically and a Timer to turn the CO2 on and off. CO2 is only injected during the day while it's being used.
Automatic - This is your highest setup which includes everything from the Manual but with a selanoid and pH controller to allow you to target a specific pH/CO2 level. CO is only injected when necessary to get back to the set level.

All three methods work just fine. The more basic ones have a lower setup expense, but the higher ones will save on CO2 usage. I prefer the basic setup since I'm injecting several aquariums and it minimizes the possible failure points.

 

[zipped]

Thanks Joy! Appreciate the nice and simple details, very helpful.
Guess I will begin roving the CO2 threads and get a game plan together.
Cichlids + Plants + Light will make for an interesting equation.

Anyone have any pics of their tanks with the 48" strip lights (t8s) with 10k or 6700k lighting? Would love to see. Thanks!!!


*edit: btw any reason why the stickies aren't working - goes to a blank page 404 not found. Saw your posts on there regarding CO2/planting but can't access.

 

[Purrbox]

Unfortunately the recent forum software upgrade broke the links. The mods are aware of the problem and working on fixing them. You can use the search feature to find the threads, and the articles by going to the articles section. If there's one in particular that you want to read and are having trouble locating, you could ask for help finding that specific thread.

 

[neilanh]

Zipped, the colors in teh 6700K and 10000K bulbs are the same as what I use right now, except that I'm using CF. But still, the color of the light visible to the eye will be roughly the same. The 6000-6700K is supposedly the best for plants, i.e. that puts of the light they tend to use the most. The 10000K works well too, but is a much whiter light than the 6700K, as those have a tint of yellow to them. Mixing the two colors is what I do, as it gives a great spectrum for the plants, and the clarity of the 10000K is aesthetically pleasing, at least IMO.

I think it's a great idea you looking into the CO2 systems, I put one together for around $175 using the Milwaukee reg off of ebay and buying a tank locally. But, I want to say that unless you're serious about going planted, the benefits of it won't outweigh the cost. If you're just going to stick with ferns and anubias in your cichlid tank, you don't need CO2 and it adds a level of complexity that doesn't really give you any benefit.

Like I said before, if you want to switch over to the dark side of the planted world, that'd be a different story. But I just don't want you to go out and spend 200 bucks and not really have a situation that needs it, or will even really benefit from it.

It's also important to note, that the addition of CO2 alone isn't going to ward off algae. What CO2 does is provide what plants need to photosynthesize. This causes the plants to consume more of the "stuff" that's in the water faster. If plants get to the "stuff" faster than the algae does, this is what keeps algae away. Simply having CO2 has no effect on keeping algae away. I guess what I'm saying is that unless you're going to have lots of plants, the CO2 isn't going to help you in the algae situation.

 

[zipped]

Yes, understood regarding the C02, why it is used, and why it might be overkill. I found the cichlid threads, pretty cool, nice section. I really think I will be sticking to the low light plants as my mix of tank inhabitants will likely destroy everything else. I haven't found much beyond 3 types of plantings that will outlive the cichlids.

So, now hunting again for a nice light... The one you posted is an option, also looking at some of the higher wattage versions. The ones that have multiple cords would be interesting - put on timers, main light for plants/general lighting, evening add the actinics for viewing. Some have the lunars included so that might be nice to have on before closing shop for the evening. Do you have pics of your tank posted here? Would be interesting to your light combo. I want to include a 10k to offset yellows - like the crisp white/bordering on blue look.

Sometimes that KISS principle comes booming through my thoughts...but then it quickly withers away. Seems nobody makes a lower wattage fixture that accomodates 2 bulb choices, lunars,multiple cords. Guess there is an product niche we could fill. I try to keep everything nice and clean looking.
Trying to stay away from putting a ton of junk on top of the aquarium. All in one, low profile light + would be nice.

 

[neilanh]

pics really don't do well portraying light colors, so I won't even try.

Understand what you're saying about multiple cords, and I'm not sure I've ever seen a fixture like the one I recommended come like that. I'll keep my eyes open.

As for moonlights, they're super easy to DIY if you get a fixture that doesn't have any. Check the DIY section, I'm pretty sure there's a write up in there.

 

[zipped]

Pics are hard to do - if you put it on a tripod and do a night shot, digital pics work pretty well. I have seen several tanks with bulb comparisons done this way. I am just curious on seeing pics with say 6700k vs 10 or 12k then a pic with only the actinics on. I am interested to see if an actinic by itself would view as a dusk or lunar color.

In the same vein, since I am writing at this fine hour, in my search for the best, I came across a car product by a company called plasmaglow - Plasmaglow LED Products
Check out these flexible LED strips made to go in wheel wells, around curves, etc. - super thin, mount with the included tape - if it can stick in a wheel well, well guess where else it will stick...
And best of all - 100% waterproof.
Just take one of the lights we have looked at, either mod the area where the ballast sits or right between the 2 bulbs add these beauties, then just add in a separate cord for timin. I have enough different phone AC adapters to chose which brightness is best, really simple for even the feint of heart. if you google it you can see the entire kit, the flex leds, wires, etc. Pretty wild...

I am planning on redoing the tank at this point I think - moving from the 50 to a 55 (48x13x19 to 48x13x21) unless anyone out there has one of those hard to find 65 gallon (48x13x24) tanks. Can't find one in Denver... So I will be watching and will take pics as I do it - the logs are fun to look back on. Sad I haven't done that in the past.