Confused

[Killian]

My 36 gal has been cycling for 30 days now. I thought it was cycled about a week ago but ammo started showing again during tests. For the past week it has tested at 0.25-0.50ppm. No nitrites and 0-5ppm nitrates all week. Last night the pH dropped to 6.8. I did a 50% pwc this morning to raise the pH and drop the ammo. When tested tonight pH had jumped to 7.4-7.6 (the highest it's ever been) and the ammo dropped to 0.25 from 0.50. Not real surprised about the ammo and I will do another pwc tomorrow am. But what is going on with the pH or should I not worry about it? My tap tests show pH at 7.6 but normally when I do pwc pH only goes up to 7.2. Obviously my tank is still cycling, should I be concerned about any of the numbers I'm seeing or just keep on doing what I'm doing? It's a fish in cycle btw.

 

[shellieca]

My 36 gal has been cycling for 30 days now. I thought it was cycled about a week ago but ammo started showing again during tests. For the past week it has tested at 0.25-0.50ppm. No nitrites and 0-5ppm nitrates all week. Last night the pH dropped to 6.8. I did a 50% pwc this morning to raise the pH and drop the ammo. When tested tonight pH had jumped to 7.4-7.6 (the highest it's ever been) and the ammo dropped to 0.25 from 0.50. Not real surprised about the ammo and I will do another pwc tomorrow am. But what is going on with the pH or should I not worry about it? My tap tests show pH at 7.6 but normally when I do pwc pH only goes up to 7.2. Obviously my tank is still cycling, should I be concerned about any of the numbers I'm seeing or just keep on doing what I'm doing? It's a fish in cycle btw.

You definitely want to keep the Ph up, from what I understand if it drops too low it can stall a cycle. Somebody else will need to explain why the Ph may be dropping. But don't use chems to raise or lower unless it's an absolute last resort, it's best to keep it stable rather than big fluctuations from chems. How long does it take for it to drop? I have 2 fish in cycling tanks, both have been cycling for over 6 weeks. IMO, fish in cycling takes longer because you have to keep the ammonia low because of the fish, but that's just my thinking.

 

[librarygirl]

How long had it been since you did a water change before you noticed PH dropping? If your water is very soft PH can sometimes drop; more frequent water changes can help stabilize it (e.g. instead of one 50% water change weekly do a couple of smaller ones throughout the week) or you can add something like a few pinches of crushed coral or argonite in a mesh media bag or clean nylon stocking in your filter to help buffer the water.

A good test is to test your tap water for PH out of the tap and then leave it sitting in a glass for 24 hours (stir it up occassionally) and then test PH again; this will be your true PH and what your tank's PH should be. Often the PH will differ from what's in the tap once it gasses out (for example my PH out of the tap is 8.4 but once it gasses out it goes down to about 7.2 which is what my tank's PH is).

If PH drops too low (in the low 6's) or drops too fast it can stun the bacteria which might be why ammonia is showing again. Did you do anything different like add fish, remove anything, clean or change filters, etc? Also check your fish and make sure they're all there; a decomposing fish can cause toxin spikes.

Have you ever had the nitrite spike or no?

 

[tamtam]

So it's been cycling for 30 days. How long have you been showing nitrates? Is the 0-5ppm normal or did you have a drop. Do you have any nitrates in your tap water

How many fish are in there now and what was your adding schedule like? The first thing that popped into my head was that you perhaps added some fish and are just experiencing a hiccup in your cycle while things adjust to the new bioload but I'm not sure. Those nitrates seem pretty low though.

Library girl has some great points and tips.

I'd say your on a good track though. Just keep trekking away.

 

[Killian]

Noticed a pH drop on 8/5 so did 25% pwc. pH started dropping again on 8/9, did 50% pwc on 8/10 (ammo was 0.50 which is why I did a larger one). GH is 7 and KH is 3 so I'm not sure if that is why pH is having issues.

I will test the tap water after leaving it sit out and see where it is.

I haven't added any new fish, replaced or cleaned anything or changed filters yet. All my fish are accounted for too.

Nitrites spiked on day 14 (7/25) to 5ppm but haven't been that high since the 50% pwc I did on that day to get those down. It hasn't gone above 1ppm and since 8/3 Nitrites have been 0.

Today's numbers:
Ammo: 0.25ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 0-5ppm
pH: 7.6, high range shows 7.4
Temp: 76

I'll probably do another pwc either tonight after work or tomorrow morning before work to get rid of the ammo.

 

[Killian]

Nitrates have been there since 7/25 (day 14). Went up to 5-10ppm on that day, did 50% pwc to drop Nitrites. Nitrates 0-5 between days 15-25. Then stayed 5ppm until last pwc on 8/10.

I have 6 Zebra Danios in the tank. Last one was added on 7/28 and I haven't added anything since then.

 

[Hobgob]

So your nitrates aren't rising anymore?

 

[Killian]

No they are not

 

[Hobgob]

Do you have any live plants at all? If its heavily planted sometime the plants can consume a lot of the trates. Have you tested your tap water for ammonia?

 

[Killian]

No live plants and no ammonia in the tap water

 

[Hobgob]

Is there still ammonia present in your tank? Is it lowering or rising at all? It shouldn't just be staying the same...

 

[Killian]

Just got done testing tank:

Ammo 0.25-0.50
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0-5
pH 7-7.2

Here's the interesting (and more confusing) part, I re-tested my tap water after sitting out for almost 48 hrs. It has not been treated with Prime.

Ammo 0.50
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0-5 so now we know why I'm getting Nitrates :-/
pH 7.6
High range pH 7.8-8
* this is the same pH levels straight out of the tap...

All the fish are active, eating and seem happy.

I'm so confused about what to do :-(

 

[shellieca]

Just got done testing tank:

Ammo 0.25-0.50
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0-5
pH 7-7.2

Here's the interesting (and more confusing) part, I re-tested my tap water after sitting out for almost 48 hrs. It has not been treated with Prime.

Ammo 0.50
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0-5 so now we know why I'm getting Nitrates :-/
pH 7.6
High range pH 7.8-8
* this is the same pH levels straight out of the tap...

All the fish are active, eating and seem happy.

I'm so confused about what to do :-(

I'm sorry I'm not understanding . . . are you concerned because you have nitrates or because they're low? You've been cycling how many weeks now? My 10g that has been cycling 7 wks stays around 5-10 nitrates which to me is great. The ammo on the other hand should be lower than what yours is showing.

 

[Killian]

It's been going for 33 days. What I'm confused about is why I had spikes of all 3 toxins about 10 days ago but now I'm getting these numbers. I'm assuming the ammonia in the tap water is okay due to the fact that I use prime when I do pwc.

I guess my ultimate question is do I not worry about the previous spikes and keep going as I'm going until things level out or is there something I need to do to help level things out?

 

[tamtam]

It's been going for 33 days. What I'm confused about is why I had spikes of all 3 toxins about 10 days ago but now I'm getting these numbers. I'm assuming the ammonia in the tap water is okay due to the fact that I use prime when I do pwc.

I guess my ultimate question is do I not worry about the previous spikes and keep going as I'm going until things level out or is there something I need to do to help level things out?

The thing with the PRIME is that it only detoxifies for 24-48 hours. It doesn't remove.. I know some people on this site have ammonia in their tap water and with a cycled tank it's not an issue, adding the prime deals with the ammonia effect on your fish and by the time it "wears" off your Beneficial bacteria have processed the ammonia.

I'm not sure though how that works in a tank you're doing a fish in cycle on. How often are you doing water changes and adding prime? Do you dose for the whole tank?

I guess maybe if you are doing water changes every day or 2 then the re-addition of prime is going to handle that ammonia. You won't fully be able to rely on the ammonia level as an indication on your cycles progress though so I guess you will have to wait and see what you start to get your nitrite spike going.

 

[Hobgob]

You normally see the spikes in a cycle... But I don't understand why your bb wouldn't be eating up the ammonia. How do you clean your filters and etc

 

[Killian]

I haven't done any cleaning of my filters yet. I have driftwood (sat in water for a week before added to the tank), fake plants (all rinsed in tap water before putting in tank) and gravel substrate (also rinsed in tap water before adding).

I do have the carbon inserts in both the penguin 200 and the quiet flow 30. Could that be the cause of this or could they need changed? I haven't vacuumed the gravel yet since I didn't want to vacuum the bb.

 

[tamtam]

I haven't done any cleaning of my filters yet. I have driftwood (sat in water for a week before added to the tank), fake plants (all rinsed in tap water before putting in tank) and gravel substrate (also rinsed in tap water before adding).

I do have the carbon inserts in both the penguin 200 and the quiet flow 30. Could that be the cause of this or could they need changed? I haven't vacuumed the gravel yet since I didn't want to vacuum the bb.

I would gravel vac once a week, maybe every two weeks if you really are worried about BB but I would def do it. If you have too much waste build up in there it will add to your ammonia spikes. It may effect the BB but it's not a whole lot and it's one of those needed things to keep your ammonia under control, like water changes.

You just need to keep going and doing PWC as needed and eventually things will level out. Sometimes a cycle runs nice a smooth and other times there are a lot of little hiccups.

 

[shellieca]

I would gravel vac once a week, maybe every two weeks if you really are worried about BB but I would def do it. If you have too much waste build up in there it will add to your ammonia spikes. It may effect the BB but it's not a whole lot and it's one of those needed things to keep your ammonia under control, like water changes.

You just need to keep going and doing PWC as needed and eventually things will level out. Sometimes a cycle runs nice a smooth and other times there are a lot of little hiccups.

+1 on the vacuuming. It is amazing how much waste is produced. I vacuum all 3 of my tanks weekly, pushing the vac down into the gravel. It'll help keep the water clear & help keep the ammonia down. I have 1 fish & 1 snail in my 10g & the water I syphon out ends up NASTY cause of the crud that gets vaced up.

 

[Killian]

Ok vacuumed the gravel tonight. Test results from before the 50% pwc:

Ammo 0.25
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0-5
pH 7.2

What about the filters when should I clean/replace cartridges for the first time? When I looked at the quiet flow cartridge it was about a quarter covered in a brown substance (best way to describe it I guess). I didn't look at the penguin 200's cartridge but the bio-wheel is starting to show the slightest hint of brown. I know you don't change and I'm guessing you don't clean the bio-wheel?

Thanks so much for everyone's help on this. It has been a while since I had a tank.