Cycling with Goldfish? AGH!

[GoldfishNewbie]

This will be a long post, bare with me
So I'm a complete fish newbie, I started out knowing nothing about them, and did many stupid things and bought 2 common goldfish for my 10 gallon tank. I then researched and learned they needed a bigger tank so I was dumb enough to get a 20 gallon, and take my betta out of his bowl (again, I knew nothing )
so I set him up with the filter and heater and everything,
Then decided my 20 gallon tank seemed so big for just two fish, and bought 2 fancy fish, a ryukin and oranda. Upon further research I learned that 1. common and fancy goldfish shouldnt be put together, and 2, goldfish grow up to 12 inches, and need way more room.
FINALLY we come to the point i'm at now... I JUST bought a 50 gallon tank for my two commons, and plan on giving away my fancy's =[ For now I still have the 4 though. Anyways I bought double the filtration and everything, had it run for a day and realized my fish are in danger, and I will have to put the two commons in the new tank before something bad (or worse) happens.
I added the conditioner and nutrafin cycle, and put the two commons in it. I know it's not idea to cycle with fish but I figure the risk of leaving 4 fish in a 20 gallon is even worse.
I also know nothing really about cycling, the process, and don't really understand how the nitrogen cycle works. SO I'm wondering what I should do now... I JUST put the fish in, and they're happily swimming around, but I read soon ammonia levels will spike, then nitrite and I could be in danger. Since I didn't end up doing a fishless cycle I'm wondering how to properly care for these two fish, especially whle the cycle process goes on. I know about the 10-20% daily water changes, but other than that i'm clueless. Any advice would be TOTALLY appreciated. Even just clarifying the nitrogen cycle for me. I know what I did was stupid... but at the time I didn't and I just want to try and make things better now...
please don't freak out like all the people on Yahoo Answers... I WANT to learn how to do it properly from now on,
thanks!

 

[Mr. Limpet]

PWC are going to be your best defense from the ammo and nitrite spikes to come. First thing you need to do is get a FW test kit (API is what I use) and test your water daily to monitor your water parameters.

There's a thread called "cycling with fish" which you can search for and should read and don't worry, people here are cool and we have all made mistakes that can be overcome.

Welcome aboard!

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[GoldfishNewbie]

This will also sound dumb... but what do pwc and fw stand for? sorry, aain, newbie

 

[Mr. Limpet]

This will also sound dumb... but what do pwc and fw stand for? sorry, aain, newbie

My bad . Partial Water Changes & fresh water. You'll get used to the abbreviations (I'm still learning some myself).

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[GoldfishNewbie]

aha thanks! I live in a small town and there aren't any good quality test kits right now, they only order like one at a time... but I have the papers you stick in and the different colours show, will that work until I can buy a proper one? or is there some other way until the right kit comes?

 

[Mr. Limpet]

aha thanks! I live in a small town and there aren't any good quality test kits right now, they only order like one at a time... but I have the papers you stick in and the different colours show, will that work until I can buy a proper one? or is there some other way until the right kit comes?

You have what's called test strips and they're notoriously inaccurate. But something is better than nothing. Look online and you should find it for a good price. Upgrade to the liquid kit and you'll have accurate readings then. Keep a record of it. And you'll be able to see how well you tank does over time.

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[GoldfishNewbie]

Thanks so much! I'll see what I can do about ordering one online, tomorrow i'll recheck the lfs and see if it might be in

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Thanks so much! I'll see what I can do about ordering one online, tomorrow i'll recheck the lfs and see if it might be in

Won't hurt to test with your strips to get a rough base as to where you're at.

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[jenatron]

Is there any reason you picked the common vs. the fancies? The commons will get much larger than the fancies..

 

[GoldfishNewbie]

not really, I mean I love my fancies but I think it's prob cuz I know that (now) these "feeder fish" will be in a good home, they won't be food to anyone, and no one would feed a fancy goldfish to their pet so they have a better chance at a good life. I'd love to keep them all but I heard its not possible to have fancies and common
Right now they're completely fine, no one picks on anyone... would it change once the commons get bigger, they're all very small fish right now

 

[ejaramillo01]

I agree that your best option is the partial water changes. Also I know that common goldfish are hardly fish, they have better chances to survive in tough environments, as you can see when many people keep them in fish bowls with no even a filter. I'm not saying that it is good, keeping low levels of ammonia an nitrites is the best for the health of the fish.

 

[jsoong]

You have one more thing to do to moderate your cycle ... seed your tank.

You already have 2 running fishtanks, you will not need to start from scratch in the 50. Depending on where you are in your cycle in the 10 & the 20, you can borrow enough of a biofilter from your tanks to avoid major spikes in the new tank.

The 2 fancies in the 10 should have provided it with a good bio-filter. If the betta had not been in there for long, the filter bacteria is still there. <The betta has much less waste than goldies, so there will not be enough to maintain the bacteria in the long term.> At any rate, you can safely take out 1/2 the filter media from the 10 to seed your new tanks.

If the 20 is not completely cycled, I would suggest seeding that as well. <Prob do that first, as that will be more in danger of crashing compared to the 50 ....> You either take 1/2 of your seeding material and put it in the filter of the 20, or squeeze the gunk out of the filter directly onto the 20's filter to seed it. <Keep all filter pads wet with tank water while you are doing this, bacteria will die if dried.> Then take the remaining filter material & stuff it into the 50's filter.

By introducing a good supply of bacteria into the filter, you jump start the cycle & moderate the NH3/NO2 peaks. <If you introduce enough biofilter, you actually don't have to cycle the tank .... or rather, the tank is cycle instantly ...this is how I start my hospital & QT tanks.>

Once you have seeded the tank, you will need to monitor them for any spikes & do pwc's as needed. Typically starting a goldfish tank from scratch, you would need to do daily pwc's of 25-50% ... with seeding, you might be able to cut that down to every other day or longer. <And cut down the cycle time down to 1-2 weeks vs. 10+ weeks from scratch.>

Now, back to the long-term plan ... I also question keeping the commons & giving away the fancies ... The commons will get too big for even the 50. They really belong in ponds. <And if you want to keep fancy single tails in tanks, you are looking at minimum of 6' long tank of 150+ gals.>

Your best bet is to plan to give away the common to someone with a pond (or build one yourself!), and keep ~ 4 fancies in the 50.

 

[jsoong]

Just re-read the posts ... not sure if I get the right picture .. do you have all 4 goldfish in the 50, or 2 fancies in the 20 still & the 2 commons in the 50?

If you have all 4 in the 50, then you obviously skip the seeding of the 20! However, you should take the 20's filter & run that in conjunction with the 50's filter. Even if the 20 is not completely cycled, it would have had a head start & be helpful in your 50's cycling. I would still seed the 50's filter form the 10 in that case.

As for mixing commons & fancies, the main problem is food competition. The fancies are simply too slow to get any food with big commons around. <The one exception would be a self-colored metallic fantail.> While the fish are small, you can prob. manage with careful feeding. Perhaps dropping food in 2 spots ... one for the common & one for the fancies. As long as you can see that the fancies are getting enough to eat, you can manage to keep both for now. So no need to rush into a snap decision.

 

[GoldfishNewbie]

Thanks, right now I have the fancies in the 20gallon and the 2 commons in the 50.
and thanks for all the advice everyone! I hate knowing what I have to do and just not wanting to (about giving the commons away)
Any chance I can wait until they're a bit bigger so I know they won't just become food? or should it be done ASAP?

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Thanks, right now I have the fancies in the 20gallon and the 2 commons in the 50.
and thanks for all the advice everyone! I hate knowing what I have to do and just not wanting to (about giving the commons away)
Any chance I can wait until they're a bit bigger so I know they won't just become food? or should it be done ASAP?

You have to remember that commons (and fancies) "can" get to a certain size, not that they will. My (4 year old) Moors are good sized, but nowhere near what I was told or read about (4" vs. record 10"). Just like the age issue, the record for a glodie is like 43 years, but average is closer to 10 - 15 years. Breeding, treatment as a fry, and a lot more determine size and life span.

Also it takes time to get that big. In the mean time, treat them well and decide if your really need that couch or would a 125 - 150+ gal tank look better in it's place .

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[jenatron]

You have to remember that commons (and fancies) "can" get to a certain size, not that they will. My (4 year old) Moors are good sized, but nowhere near what I was told or read about (4" vs. record 10"). Just like the age issue, the record for a glodie is like 43 years, but average is closer to 10 - 15 years. Breeding, treatment as a fry, and a lot more determine size and life span.

You forgot stunting is one of the factors for size, and age for that matter, as well.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

You forgot stunting is one of the factors for size, and age for that matter, as well.

I was cheating it by saying "and a lot more" .

The other issue is her commons came from a feeder supply, and they're not really bred for long fruitful lives. Of course that 43 year old goldie was won at a carnival, so who's to say.

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[GoldfishNewbie]

thanks for the advice, now theres a new problem
The tank is clouding, kinda white... is this going to harm the fish? How much of a water change should I do?

 

[Mr. Limpet]

thanks for the advice, now theres a new problem
The tank is clouding, kinda white... is this going to harm the fish? How much of a water change should I do?

Most likely, it's a bacterial bloom causing a mini cycle. 50% water change is appropriate and check you're water parameters. You may have to do that a couple days in a row.

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[GoldfishNewbie]

Changed it, but is it dangerous to the fish? or do I kind of want a bacterial bloom?