Desperately need help with lighting

[Kimlafeiet]

I got a great deal on a 35 gallon tall tank with stand, canopy and all the goodies from a neighbor, so I snatched it up. Dimensions are 30x12x24

Just got my 20 gallon planted but have decided to go ahead and move it all to this new larger tank so I can have the fish i want

The tank came with a 24 inch standard flourescent strip light. Obviously, I need to upgrade my lighting to keep plants, but when it comes to lighting, I am a complete noob, and have NO IDEA what I need. I do know I only want to keep lower light plants, as I don't want to have to get into c02. My 20 gallon has a stock lid, which I put 2 screw in zoo med 6700k fourescent bulbs, and my plants are doing fine with that.

I have anubias, java fern, hornwort, bacopa caroliniana, crypt and 1 amazon sword. I will be adding java or christmas moss to this mix as well in the future.

I plan to put eco-complete or folramax in the tank, topped with pfs. Which is better? Dose with seachem flourish.

I know this is a tall tank, so I need to know what lighting will be the best for the plants listed above. I do not plan on adding any higher light plants.

Here were my thoughts, please let me know if you have any experience with either of these, or if you think they would even work ok.

1. Marineland single strip led light with moonlights in it, and use exisiting 24 inch flourescent with a new bulb for plants (such as the zoo med at the petstore)

2. Get a 2nd 24 inch strip light, and do both with plant bulbs from the petstire.

Don't think I want to get into the T5's or metal halide, as I really don't want to add too much light and melt my plants or end up having to dose with co2, etc. Ok with adding liquid c02 if needed (such as fourish excel) and root tabs, but would like to steer clear of anything more intense than that.

Thanks for any help, I am sooooooooo confused.
2. Use

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Eco Complete and Floramax are essentially the same thing. EC just has the liquid bacteria in the bag. I find that Floramax does well and is a better value. So just get what ever you can find at a better deal. Any particular reason you want to top with PFS? I think the EC and FM are decent looking substrate in their own. You can just add some flourish tabs under the heavy root feeders like the sword.

However, instead of the mainland led fixture, I would recommend the Finnex Fugeray 30" LED fixture. If you add at least 3" of substrate, you should get close to 20 PAR (photosynthetically active radiation). PAR values that are between 10 to 30 are considered low light.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

I will look into the Finnex light. Just to clarify, should I use the 24 inch flourescent in addition to the Finnex,or just the Finnex? Also, does it mount above the tank? I was hoping to keep the tank open (without glass top) as the canopy covers all 4 sides and has openings at the top, so I was thinking if I skip the glass top, I will get better light penetration.

As far as the PFS, I just really like the look and light color of it. The tank back is painted black, so with the dark substrate, it just seems like it would look to dark in there. I have been following your 26g bowfront build, and I love how you did the "river" with sand. Is something like that hard to keep clean and separated from teh dark substrate?

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

The Finnex fixtures come with docking legs, splash guard, and the fugeray actually comes with moonlights as well. It's so slim that I'm sure you can fit it anywhere a traditional bulky fixture would have gone.

If the PAR data posted by Finnex it's accurate, it would provide enough light for your needs without that second fixture.

And yes, I find maintaining that sandy river I made on the 26g a little challenging. I actually added some pea gravel on the sand to give it more weight and structure to help keep the Floramax from mixing in. It probably would have been advisable to add some kind of landscaping barriers buried in the substrate. I've never used that before, but I recall reading about that somewhere. Overall I'm still happy with my build. I use the Ray 2 Finnex model, it's higher light intensity than their Fugeray line. So that's why, with your mentioned criteria, I recommended the 30" Fugeray. Your tank is 30" long right, not 24"?

Distance affects PAR, so with a tank your height, you'll need to add several inches of substrate to close the distance a bit IMO.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Buy if you really like the Marineland Double Bright.. Here's some PAR data, which would be enough for low light...

24-36 inch fixture: 35 PAR @ 12", 19 PAR @ 24" (distance from light to substrate).

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Yes, it is 30 inches long. I will definitely look into the finnex, it sounds like it might be just what I need. Thanks!

 

[bevoholic]

I second the Finnex. I have a 12" on my 2.5. Amazing light.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Thanks guys, I will definitely look into the Finnex. Found it on Amazon, it looks to have pretty good reviews for plants

As far as the substrate. Is it not a good idea to layer PFS over the floramax? I really like the sand look, but I guess I am open to suggestions. I really want my plants to thrive, that is the most important part.

 

[Karay]

Buy if you really like the Marineland Double Bright.. Here's some PAR data, which would be enough for low light...

24-36 inch fixture: 35 PAR @ 12", 19 PAR @ 24" (distance from light to substrate).

Now where did you find that. Unless I'm blind the Marineland website was pretty vague. I have both a single and a double bright and was wondering their light value

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Those plants would actually do fine with the PFS alone I believe. Two of my low light planted tanks are just using some Caribsea Supernaturals sand as the substrate. I have Swords, Crypts, Moss, and Java Fern and they're doing fine.

I would just get some Flourish Tabs and place them under where the rooted plants will be going. The Java Fern and Anubias do best when tied to some DW or Stone. Just dose a good liquid fertilizer such as Flourish Comprehensive and Flourish Excel (as directed on the bottle).

There's probably better options out there. I've heard of using mineralized top soil as the first layer and then capping it with sand. But I've never tried this. Perhaps there's other options? I suppose if you don't mind the cake layer look, then Floramax as the first layer might be okay.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Now where did you find that. Unless I'm blind the Marineland website was pretty vague. I have both a single and a double bright and was wondering their light value

I gather my data from this source:
LED Lighting Compendium

It's weird too because when I first got into LED lighting, I did my research and read a TON of threads. My first choice (not knowing of many options at the time) was to get the Marineland DB LED fixture. So when I got to the thread I linked to, the "Source" links to the Marineland fixtures worked and matched what was recorded in the Compendium. I just tried them now to verify the PAR data, and the links aren't working... I'm wondering if Marineland took down that site? My guess is that they're not the best bang for the buck anymore and perhaps their PAR charts are hurting their sales? Of course I have nothing to back that claim of mine, it's just a theory.

 

[Karay]

I gather my data from this source:
LED Lighting Compendium

It's weird too because when I first got into LED lighting, I did my research and read a TON of threads. My first choice (not knowing of many options at the time) was to get the Marineland DB LED fixture. So when I got to the thread I linked to, the "Source" links to the Marineland fixtures worked and matched what was recorded in the Compendium. I just tried them now to verify the PAR data, and the links aren't working... I'm wondering if Marineland took down that site? My guess is that they're not the best bang for the buck anymore and perhaps their PAR charts are hurting their sales? Of course I have nothing to back that claim of mine, it's just a theory.

Thank you very much. Great reading!

 

[Kimlafeiet]

So, I don't really NEED a substrate like flourish if I dose with ferts and root tabs??? I would love to stick with just the pfs if I can. All of my java fern and anubias is attached to driftwood, as will the moss when I get that far. I guess I just figured if I am getting into a bigger tank, I should probably use a plant substrate.
Man, this plant thing is a bit of a challenge. My houseplants seem so easy compared to this, lol. Too bad I am not content with sunken ships and silly plastic pink plants anymore, huh

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

No Floramax or EC isn't absolutely necessary. But it's a great substrate for planted aquaria IMO -- I use it. But I prefer black substrate so it suits me. However, in my low-light tanks, I have white sand (as I mentioned earlier) and those low light plants do fine. Just place a flourish tab under the root feeders.

There was a recent thread here on AA (by: ejaramillo01) that I was amazed at the level of growth achieved with PFS (all other factors considered). Check out this thread (from page 5 on). I had to ask what substrate he was using because the plants look healthy. Check it out:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/perpetual-preservation-system-pro-225775-5.html

Here's a nice looking tank just from googling about PFS. Click the link in the second post about a discus tank...
Who grows plants in pool filter sand?​

One thing about PFS is that the grains are really small. I believe if you create anything more than an inch in depth with this substrate, you'll run the risk of compaction and gas pockets. It's advisable to get MTS (Malaysian trumpet snails) and/or stir the substrate occasionally to release these pockets.


Don't worry about it being tough, you'll get it! Once you get things planted and you learn as you go along, it becomes easy peasy! Don't be afraid to ask questions and research... it's fun!

Look at my 12 gallon linked in my signature. That was my first tank coming back in to the hobby since I was a child. I was totally clueless... I even bought a tank meant for SW I signed up here on AA (hence the 'nano 12g' in my name) and learned a lot thank to this great resource. Now I have 5 tanks ... But I'll eventually get down to 2 or 3 (with some being sold off and 1 BIG tank down the road). I started with silk plants and fake DW as my decor. I can't believe I actually thought that was cool. Then I went to low light plants (like you), now I'm all in to high tech / high lights... it's addictive... it's nuts I tell ya! A straight money pit and a lot of work (well the high tech setup at least).. but it's a "labor of love!"

 

[Coursair]

So, I don't really NEED a substrate like flourish if I dose with ferts and root tabs??? I would love to stick with just the pfs if I can. All of my java fern and anubias is attached to driftwood, as will the moss when I get that far. I guess I just figured if I am getting into a bigger tank, I should probably use a plant substrate.
Man, this plant thing is a bit of a challenge. My houseplants seem so easy compared to this, lol. Too bad I am not content with sunken ships and silly plastic pink plants anymore, huh

I use sand with DIY root caps. I wanted black sand for looks and for my Shrimp and Cories.

 

[Coursair]

So, I don't really NEED a substrate like flourish if I dose with ferts and root tabs??? I would love to stick with just the pfs if I can. All of my java fern and anubias is attached to driftwood, as will the moss when I get that far. I guess I just figured if I am getting into a bigger tank, I should probably use a plant substrate.
Man, this plant thing is a bit of a challenge. My houseplants seem so easy compared to this, lol. Too bad I am not content with sunken ships and silly plastic pink plants anymore, huh

I use Black blasting sand. Super cheap. I was afraid white sand would look dirty too fast, plus fish and shrimp show up much better and color up better. Fish sometimes "pale out " on light substrates. I also use CaribSea Tahitian Moon Sand as I love the look !

EC is good stuff. I just like my sand. I do have MTS and mine is usually 2" deep.

 

[Autumnsky]

Just added a tank of Eco Complete it was 17.99 from Petco with free shipping and came on the 3rd day from ordering. It says do not cap, but if you are going to add something mix it in as the fine particles go to the bottom half and the larger ones stay to the top and its granular shapes help root growth.

If you happen to live near a sand blasing supply house they have tons of different colored sands and materials including Garnet sand, I am going to be picking up a bag to add to next time I go to the big city! There are purplish and sunset colors.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Thank you so much for all of your input. I have only ever had dark substrate, until I planted this 20 gallon with the PFS. I like the look of it, but am already noticing how it shows every little poop (eww) and my fish do look washed out. Good thing it was cheap, as I think I may take everyones advice and go with the eco-complete or floramax.

Brian, I looked at your 12 gallon, and it is amazing! I have that exact same fake log (in a box in the basement, lol). Thank you for all of your help, you have been amazing. I am excited to get into plants, and will no doubt end up going high-tech down the road. It is totally addicting!

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Oh......question. How much substrate do i need to use? Tank is 30 inches x 12 inches. I am probably going to go with Floramax, as they sell it in the petstore vs. Eco-compelete, which I have to order online. How many bags should I pick up?

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I think they're 12 lbs bags... I would get 3. I saw them on sale at my local Petsmart for about $10 a bag.

Edit: don't forget to use the little packet if biomagnet solution that's in each bag to help with the cloudiness after you've flooded the tank.