Dirty tank

[fatfei]

Hi,

I set up this tank a couple of months ago and it's been a complete nightmare for me. It has aquarium dirt at the bottom capped with sand. I have live plants, a pleco and another fish. I've taken to feeding the fish sparingly making sure there's no food waste. I've got an external filter much bigger than what's needed for the aquarium size and it was also matured already. I've also put another filter in out of desperation. The tank is filthy. Maybe red algae? I've done checks for nitrate, nitrite, Antonia and phosphate all come back clear. Any ideas what I can do to clear this. There's plenty of what looks like bubbles in the tank which isn't coming from the air stone

 

[ZxC]

Looks like cyanobacteria to me, nasty stuff. Google image it for confirmation.

Generally, I would ask you these questions to help solve the source issue:
Lighting? Make/model/how long they are on par day
CO2?
Fertilizing schedule?
Actual Nitrate level?
Flow in the tank?

There are 2 approaches generally to this situation.

1) Do the following:
Massive water changes for a week straight, sucking out all the mulm and junk from the tank. Remove as much cyanobacteria as possible. Black out (no light at all, cover with blankets etc for 5 days. After the blackout, another large 75%+ water change, and remove any more crud. Continue with twice weekly larger than normal water changes, buy a bunch of new plants to increase plant uptake of excess nutrients, increase flow in the tank. Reduce lighting to 6 hours a day. Look into fertilizers for plants, CO2 or a liquid carbon source (Liquid CO2 only exits under high pressure) such as excel.

2)
Buy chemiclean, use as directed, reduce light to 6 hours a day, look into fertilizers/excel increase water change frequency/amount. Keep a close eye on parameters as chemiclean could wipe out some of our nitrogen cycle buddies.

 

[flitabout]

Something in there is definitely out of balance. Your plants don't look like they are growing well and have lots of dead leaves. I have never dealt with cyanobacteria before so I can't say anything about that.

 

[fatfei]

Looks like cyanobacteria to me, nasty stuff. Google image it for confirmation.

Generally, I would ask you these questions to help solve the source issue:
Lighting? Make/model/how long they are on par day
CO2?
Fertilizing schedule?
Actual Nitrate level?
Flow in the tank?

There are 2 approaches generally to this situation.

1) Do the following:
Massive water changes for a week straight, sucking out all the mulm and junk from the tank. Remove as much cyanobacteria as possible. Black out (no light at all, cover with blankets etc for 5 days. After the blackout, another large 75%+ water change, and remove any more crud. Continue with twice weekly larger than normal water changes, buy a bunch of new plants to increase plant uptake of excess nutrients, increase flow in the tank. Reduce lighting to 6 hours a day. Look into fertilizers for plants, CO2 or a liquid carbon source (Liquid CO2 only exits under high pressure) such as excel.

2)
Buy chemiclean, use as directed, reduce light to 6 hours a day, look into fertilizers/excel increase water change frequency/amount. Keep a close eye on parameters as chemiclean could wipe out some of our nitrogen cycle buddies.

Thank you for the quick reply.

Lighting is a juwel 180 led light specifically made for the tank (180) I leave this on for 8 hours a day

I try to use the liquid co2 daily but admittedly can't always do that.

I use TMC certs weekly with water changes.

The nitrate level is no more than 5 ppm

And the flow is from a short spout style outlet that has an average amount of water movement from a JBL crystal green line external filter

 

[ZxC]

Thank you for the quick reply.

Lighting is a juwel 180 led light specifically made for the tank (180) I leave this on for 8 hours a day

I try to use the liquid co2 daily but admittedly can't always do that.

I use TMC certs weekly with water changes.

The nitrate level is no more than 5 ppm

And the flow is from a short spout style outlet that has an average amount of water movement from a JBL crystal green line external filter

Liquid CO2 only exists @ > 75 pounds per square inch + temperatures < -69 degrees Fahrenheit

Best bet and proven way to remove it is a Chemiclean treatment. From there, I would increase plant mass (try rotala rotundifolia, lloydiella, hemianthus micranthemoides, sagittaria subulata as these are fast growing, and will help with nutrient uptake) increase my water changes (amount or frequency), decrease light to 6 hours a day.

Is there a specified colour spectrum of the light?
What do you mean by aquarium soil?
Are there any "dead spots" in the tank where there is limited water movement? (usually indicated by mulm buildup)

 

[fatfei]

Liquid CO2 only exists @ > 75 pounds per square inch + temperatures < -69 degrees Fahrenheit

Best bet and proven way to remove it is a Chemiclean treatment. From there, I would increase plant mass (try rotala rotundifolia, lloydiella, hemianthus micranthemoides, sagittaria subulata as these are fast growing, and will help with nutrient uptake) increase my water changes (amount or frequency), decrease light to 6 hours a day.

Is there a specified colour spectrum of the light?
What do you mean by aquarium soil?
Are there any "dead spots" in the tank where there is limited water movement? (usually indicated by mulm buildup)

I'll try that thanks.
I'm not sure what the light spectrum is tbh I no longer have the box and couldn't find the information on the juwel site.
The soil was just soil that was aquarium safe that what was recommended by someone ( i think from this site)
The only place I have mulm is on the glass frame that goes across the centre of the tank where I probably put a little bit too much water in the tank.

I'll have a look into these other plants. I agree reducing the light is more desirable than a complete black out otherwise my existing plants will die.

Thank you

 

[ZxC]

I'll try that thanks.
I'm not sure what the light spectrum is tbh I no longer have the box and couldn't find the information on the juwel site.
The soil was just soil that was aquarium safe that what was recommended by someone ( i think from this site)
The only place I have mulm is on the glass frame that goes across the centre of the tank where I probably put a little bit too much water in the tank.

I'll have a look into these other plants. I agree reducing the light is more desirable than a complete black out otherwise my existing plants will die.

Thank you

If you do a blackout your plants will not die. I have done several in the past. Try and eliminate any slow moving areas of the tank, look at getting some snails, they won't eat cyano, but the will help keep on on plant matter/un-eaten food.

Also try and follow a good maintenance schedule, as well as excel schedule. Once you find a nice balance of plants/lighting/fertilizer (your soil)/excel algae won't be as much of a hassle.

 

[V227]

F
You appear to be the type of hobbiest that keeps up with tank maintenence and has a good working knowledge of all related aspects of fish keeping. This leads me to believe that your problem might not be bacterial in nature. Z x C provided excellent advice if the problem does in fact prove to be bacterial, but I've seen situations like yours before, and the culprit usually turns out to be the "phantom" aquarium soil aka dirt.
It's possible that small amounts of the dirt is somehow oozing through the sand cap, clouding your water. This situation can be amplified if your underlying dirt base is potting soil.

 

[ZxC]

F
You appear to be the type of hobbiest that keeps up with tank maintenence and has a good working knowledge of all related aspects of fish keeping. This leads me to believe that your problem might not be bacterial in nature. Z x C provided excellent advice if the problem does in fact prove to be bacterial, but I've seen situations like yours before, and the culprit usually turns out to be the "phantom" aquarium soil aka dirt.
It's possible that small amounts of the dirt is somehow oozing through the sand cap, clouding your water. This situation can be amplified if your underlying dirt base is potting soil.

Yes, of course.

Everything I am saying is aimed at cyano lol, perhaps at some other algaes too.

F,
If we take a look at the picture you provided, you can see the "brown stuff" creeping across the wood piece, and up the rocks/crypt leaves. That is why I'm leaning towards cyano. To be sure, shut your filter off (no water movement), take some 3% H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) in a syringe and gntly squeeze a few mL's onto the "brown stuff". leave it for 10 minutes or so, if it bubbles and turns an orangy colour, it's likey cyano. Maybe grab a close up pic for us?

V could be right as well, the dirt could be seeping through your cap and leaving a bunch of crud behind with it. Nonetheless, too much/wrong colour of light and excess nutrients (or raw soil in the water) may be the culprit of the "brown stuff".

 

[fatfei]

If you do a blackout your plants will not die. I have done several in the past. Try and eliminate any slow moving areas of the tank, look at getting some snails, they won't eat cyano, but the will help keep on on plant matter/un-eaten food.

Also try and follow a good maintenance schedule, as well as excel schedule. Once you find a nice balance of plants/lighting/fertilizer (your soil)/excel algae won't be as much of a hassle.

Ah thanks. I wasn't sure with the plants I had I could do that. Any particular snails you recommend?

 

[fatfei]

Right, thanks V thanks Z&C

I'll leave the light on for 6hrs per day
Buy chemiclean
Then put more plants in
And get some snails.

I think I've ticked all the boxes here?

 

[ZxC]

Right, thanks V thanks Z&C

I'll leave the light on for 6hrs per day
Buy chemiclean
Then put more plants in
And get some snails.

I think I've ticked all the boxes here?

That is a plan, I would confirm it is cyano before going forward and spending money though. This also does not correct the root cause of the cyano (if it is cyano).

Does it peel off in a "thick mat" ?
Does it respond to a hydrogen peroxide treatment?
do you have a close up picture of it?

 

[fatfei]

That is a plan, I would confirm it is cyano before going forward and spending money though. This also does not correct the root cause of the cyano (if it is cyano).

Does it peel off in a "thick mat" ?
Does it respond to a hydrogen peroxide treatment?
do you have a close up picture of it?

It looks like it is
I've not got any hydrogen peroxide to test it but having googled it it seems to be a match.
I've taken some more pictures and where there's weed like patches it does peel off in a thick mat.

 

[ZxC]

Okay, looks to be cyano.... am I positive, no, but your eyes will see a better version that the pictures I am seeing. Your call with the chemiclean, it might be worth it to remove as much as possible and then treat the tank.

 

[fatfei]

I'll do that thanks.
I've never experienced this before or heard of chemclean prior to this. I just want to make sure, when I use the treatment do I need to keep an airstone running whilst it is being treated?

 

[ZxC]

I'll do that thanks.
I've never experienced this before or heard of chemclean prior to this. I just want to make sure, when I use the treatment do I need to keep an airstone running whilst it is being treated?

I think so, just follow the directions and make sure you keep an eye on parameters because it is an antibiotic, so it may effect your biologicals. If done correctly is almost always works, so I've been told. I'm on the verge of buying and using some now, I seem to have my cyano under control, but one hickup and it comes back within a week.

After the treatment, I would increase water changes, reduce lighting period and pick up more plants to help use up excess nutrients you may be experiencing. You may want to run a fresh bag of activated carbon after the treatment for a few weeks, changing out the carbon once a week to help bind up any left over meds. Also, do your best to avoid breaking the sand cap and allowing your soil to make its way into the water column.

 

[Angellove78]

Might wanta start by taking out that drift wood in front. Might be what's causing that. The first picture I seen the drift wood just caught my eye. I don't know. But that's just what I'd do.

 

[fatfei]

Thanks Z&C

Sounds like a good plan &#55357;&#56397; thinking back I bet I breeched the sand barrier when I planted my previous plants. Thank you all for helping me. &#55357;&#56397;&#55357;&#56397;

 

[ZxC]

Might wanta start by taking out that drift wood in front. Might be what's causing that. The first picture I seen the drift wood just caught my eye. I don't know. But that's just what I'd do.

+1

That would be a good way of getting rid of a bunch of the nasties. Pick up some 3% H2O2, mix up a few table spoons per gallon in a bucket of water, dunk the driftwood in over night, rinse really well and clean it up. Then the wood should be free of living cyano and can be placed back in the tank.