DIY CO2 still not working...

[Ryehard]

I remade my yeast CO2 container about a week ago and it worked quite well up until now. It wasn't producing very quickly, about 1 bubble per 8 to 10 seconds, but it seemed to work. Could it be a temperature problem? It was very warm for this time of year last week, and now it's cold again. We generally keep our house heated up to 64 F in the winter, and 60 F at night (certainly not on the high side). Also, should I use two yeast containers for a 20 gallon or just stick with one?

 

[nitrous]

what kind of distributor do you have, cna i see a pic of the whole contraption please i was thinking about doing this myselfd

 

[Ryehard]

Unfortunately I'm out of town right now so I can't take a pic, but for now I just have a silicone tube directing the bubbles into the intake of my aquaclear until I get this yeast thing figured out. I mostly have been using this site for reference http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html .

 

[nitrous]

o so you just had the 2 liter of yeast no seperate bottle of diffuser, ya thats what i was just gonna do, so its in the intake of your aquaclear? hmm i might do that

 

[Purrbox]

I would suspect that the temperature of your house is the problem. You could try putting them into a waterbath with a heater to help get things going better.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

If you are using 2L bottles, put them in a bucket of water and put an aquarium heater in it, and set to 78 degrees or do.

 

[Glenc]

Take your warm hand and put it around your CO2 bottle. You will notice an immediate improvement in your CO2 production. It will start to bubble faster right away. I do exactly as Purrbox and Lonewolf said. Put your bottles in water and heat them up. It will greatly improve your CO2 production.

 

[fish_4_all]

Silicone every connection you have, it will make a huge difference. No matter if the connections were working before or not, silicone them. They will develop leaks. My first bottle of DIY worked awesome for 3 days then slowly petered out to the point where I had to have the bell almost at the top of the water to get CO2 to run in. I started a new one 2 days ago and couldn't get it to produce althogh the bottle had lots bubbles. I siliconed the bottle top and the tubing and it instantly worked and filled the bell in less than 10 minutes. You have a leak and that is where the CO2 is going. You should be producing way too much CO2 to have a trickle. As for heaitng them up, unlessx you are using a power diffuser I wouldn't bother because it will produce way too much and simply waste most of the CO2. My house sits at 66 F at night or lower and produces well enough that I have large bubbles escaping all the time.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Also, when you heat the water in the bucket, you can play with the temp. Just keep bumping the temp up a couple degrees at a time til you get it right where you want it.

 

[Ryehard]

Cool, that sounds like a good idea. I was thinking of somehow putting a heater inside the bottle but decided that wouldn't work out too well obviously. I'll try that out and let you all know how it goes. Also, I have a feeling that my seals are in fact maybe leaking a slight bit. I'll silicone them or try to find a better way to fasten them. Thanks!

 

[7Enigma]

I agree with fish_4_all,

While heating will indeed increase the rate of CO2, in a new batch you should have more than enough CO2 being produced. I think you might have a leak, or really hard water. I'm sure you know, but don't put the yeast in hot water to dissolve, as it will die. My house is set at 65 during the day and 50 during the night (yes I'm cheap). It routinely gets down to ~52F before I turn the heat back on, and my CO2 output is fine. I'm actually worried about the summertime as my CO2 production is already right where I want it (a little over a bubble per second).

I do have a thick 2L bottle that I use and not a thin soda bottle. You can wrap your bottle with plastic bubblewrap and then put a blanket around it to better buffer against temp swings, but I honestly think its a more specific problem (leak or reagent problem).

Hope it works out for you. In the meantime I'd seriously lower your light level and watch your fish for possible stress from the higher pH. I had my CO2 run out while on vacation last week and have a minor/moderate outbreak of green algae on my terra cotta pots.

 

[Meredith]

I use plumbers tape around my connections. I had a small leak in the bottle top where the tubing goes in. The tape worked well. I have since changed the top but I still put the tape around just incase.

 

[Ryehard]

Okay... I remanufactured my seals completely using a household plastic cement for the initial bonding and then put another layer of aquarium silicone around the seal on the inside an outside of the cap once the initial seal dried. I put my 2L bottle in a 3gal bucket and put a small aquarium heater in that and it seems to be stable at 70 degrees. Now my systems only weakness seems to be the gang valve that I'm connecting it through. It's old and rusted, so I should probably get a new better one of those. Also, just out of curiosity, how much yeast does everyone use for a 2L bottle? The recipe I found says 1/4 teaspoon, but that seems like a small amount.

Oh yeah and thanks for the tip on the PH swing 7Enigma.. I didn't even think about it and when I checked I noticed my PH was skyrocketing, so I did a large water change and I'm keeping my eye on it and lowering light until my CO2 starts working again.

 

[rich311k]

A 1/4 tps. sounds about right. I use just a little more than that for a gallon and that bubbles away nicely.

 

[malkore]

I would suspect that the temperature of your house is the problem. You could try putting them into a waterbath with a heater to help get things going better.

bingo!

60-64 degrees is a bit too cold for most yeast to do well. A lager beer yeast would do well under those temps, but it may die prematurely from alcohol levels getting too high...bread and wine yeast are tolerant of higher alcohol levels but also need something more in the low to mid 70's to thrive.

a warm water bath does the trick in winter months...but make sure the water doesn't run out adn expose the heater to air, which can cause it to shatter, depending on the model used.

 

[7Enigma]

Well since my last email I will be changing the way in which I treat the DIY setup. Here's my new protocol:

-Take 3 cups of water to be used for the DIY and boil it. Add the boiling liquid to the 2L bottle. Slosh it around for a minute or so to make sure it completely kills all the bacteria that may be in the bottle. Add in 2 1/4 cups of sugar and mix until dissolved. Let the bottle sit and cool for a bit while I make up my yeast mixture. (It will have cooled off quite a bit from the addition of sugar, as the sugar is cold and the dissolving process requires energy as well)

-In 1/4 cup of lukewarm water (~100F) add in the 1/4-1/2 tsp of dry yeast and stir until no clumps are present. When properly mixed, add in a pinch or 2 of sugar. Vigourous stir in the sugar until frothing occurs (like beating eggs). Let sit for 10minutes.

-Test sugar water in bottle to make sure it is not too hot (pour some out into a dixie cup or something, DON'T put your finger in, as it contains bacteria on it!)

-When its cool enough add in the yeast mixture, cap it and shake it up a bit

-Reattach it to the tank


The above was from the link Ryehard posted, but slightly modified (very slight). So you don't have to read the whole link (it is quite interesting however), here is a brief synopsis for why you do or don't do things when making a DIY setup:

-Don't add baking powder to the mix. This was previously thought to buffer against the pH swing in the bottle when the CO2 creates an acidic condition. Turns out the yeast perform very well in a wide range of pH and adding sodium (from the baking powder) is actually toxic to the yeast. What seems to extend the life of the mixture is actually slowing the production of CO2 by killing off some of the yeast. The lower number of yeast then produce alcohol slower, so it is percieved as a longer lasting mixture. Actually you should just add less yeast to start with if you can get adequate saturation...

-Doboil your water and immediately put it in the 2L bottle to sterilize and kill the bacteria that is most likely in there. While its not 100% certain to kill everything and you are doing this out in the open, it is better than not doing it.

-Do make sure you acclimate the dry yeast in the 100F water with the method described above. This will ensure that the highest % off yeast survive to produce the CO2 (the yeast need oxygen when hydrated to get ready for the 2L bottle without oxygen, otherwise not all will make it).

-you can add baking soda to the mixture to bring up your KH a bit and slow down the reaction if your tap water is very soft. As far as I've read so far this does not actually KILL the yeast, it just makes the production of CO2 take longer. I'm still on the fence as to whether I want to add baking soda in my next batch.

OK thats it for now, and thanks again to Ryehard for posting that very informative link.

justin

 

[7Enigma]

I would suspect that the temperature of your house is the problem. You could try putting them into a waterbath with a heater to help get things going better.

bingo!

60-64 degrees is a bit too cold for most yeast to do well. A lager beer yeast would do well under those temps, but it may die prematurely from alcohol levels getting too high...bread and wine yeast are tolerant of higher alcohol levels but also need something more in the low to mid 70's to thrive.

a warm water bath does the trick in winter months...but make sure the water doesn't run out adn expose the heater to air, which can cause it to shatter, depending on the model used.

My house is 50-65F and I have not run into problems. I have in my last batch used more yeast than the normal mixture, but it produced very well for 2 weeks. I really don't think his problem was the temperature, but rather a leak. As a small experiment I'd be interested in seeing the OP remake his batch EXACTLY as he did before and still not use a water bath. I would wager his results would be much better...but that's just a guess.

From my understanding bread yeast is the most INtolerant of the yeasts when it comes to alcohol-related death. Beer yeast is more tolerant, and wine yeast is the most tolerant. This would make sense as the alcohol content of fermented beer is much greater than it will ever be when making bread due to the much longer and stronger fermentation, with wine being the greatest due to the very long fermenting process and much higher final alcohol concentrations.

 

[Ryehard]

I think I found out what one of my biggest problems was. I took off the gang valve and just sent the line straight through and it's now producing a bubble every 2 seconds. Either it was too restrictive and I had a leak elsewhere or the valve itself was leaking. Also, I mixed way too much yeast the first time so I'm wondering if that caused it to die out quickly.
The heater I'm using is a pretty cheap walmart water heater so I'll keep an eye on the water level. We don't have air conditioning downstairs in our house so in a few months I won't have to use the water bath anymore.
As far as my mixture goes, I used a little more than 1/4 teaspoon of yeast and rehydrated it and let it foam first. I used luke warm filtered water (probably 80's), 2 cups of sugar, and 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda. I'll see how long that lasts, and next time I'll use regular tap water with no baking soda and try boiling it first (letting it cool of course before mixing). Hopefully this time around everything will continue to work for more than a week.

 

[7Enigma]

http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/ethanol/ethanol.html

Very cool read on ethanol. I am looking for a natural (read CHEAP) way to remove alcohol from the DIY mixture to lengthen the time between changes. Anyone know where I can get some of these enzymes cheap?