DIY CO2 v.s. Compressed CO2 v.s. Chemicals

[ianeberle]

I am in the process of setting up a 10 gallon planted tank for cherry shrimp or crystal shrimp and I want to include a CO2 system. Not very interested in paying the large amounts of money for the compressed CO2 systems found in fish stores, so I was looking at DIY.

Specifically these two methods:

DIY Yeast-Generated CO2 System
DIY CO2 System for Planted Aquarium

How much would the supplies cost for the DIY and how much would it cost to maintain? What about the store-bought compressed CO2 with the silver cans, gauges, etc.

I'm also interested in making the same DIY system for my established 36 gallon tank. Would it injure the fish to all of a sudden include CO2 or should I start using it gradually?

Also, I have an air stone pumping in my 36 gallon. Would this release or waste any of the CO2 or would it actually be helpful to let some oxygen in too?

Thanks!

Edit: forgot to add: How much more effective is CO2 injection over chemicals like Flourish? I currently use chemicals right now, but plant growth is slow. I also have a 30W natural daylight fluorescent lamp on my 36 gallon and a 17W fluorescent light on my 10 gallon. I am planning on upgrading these both to T5 fixtures around Christmas time since they are costly.

 

[Aquatic_Adam]

I am in the process of setting up a 10 gallon planted tank for cherry shrimp or crystal shrimp and I want to include a CO2 system. Not very interested in paying the large amounts of money for the compressed CO2 systems found in fish stores, so I was looking at DIY.

Specifically these two methods:

DIY Yeast-Generated CO2 System
DIY CO2 System for Planted Aquarium

How much would the supplies cost for the DIY and how much would it cost to maintain? What about the store-bought compressed CO2 with the silver cans, gauges, etc.

I'm also interested in making the same DIY system for my established 36 gallon tank. Would it injure the fish to all of a sudden include CO2 or should I start using it gradually?

Also, I have an air stone pumping in my 36 gallon. Would this release or waste any of the CO2 or would it actually be helpful to let some oxygen in too?

Thanks!

Edit: forgot to add: How much more effective is CO2 injection over chemicals like Flourish? I currently use chemicals right now, but plant growth is slow. I also have a 30W natural daylight fluorescent lamp on my 36 gallon and a 17W fluorescent light on my 10 gallon. I am planning on upgrading these both to T5 fixtures around Christmas time since they are costly.

CO2 should be used in conjunction with chemicals. Flourish supplements the plants with nutrients while CO2 allows them to really utilize the nutrients. Too much or too little of either (balanced with proper light of course) leads to tank balance and algae.

There is what one could call the triforce of advanced plant keeping. Light (intensity and spectrum), nutrients (micro and macro), and CO2. Keeping these balanced is crucial.

That being said. Additives like Excel (liquid carbon) < DIY CO2 < Pressurized CO2.

I ca attest, I did DIY CO2 on my 29g. Switched it to a Fluval pressurized kit. Plants took off. This isn't to say that it is right in every situation though. DIY can be a great and cheap alternative.

Running the DIY CO2 costs little. Empty Gatorade bottles, yeast (last a long time), sugar. Most expensive part is the tubing and sealant. Which still isn't bad.

My pressurized kit was $44 off Drs. Foster and Smith. But replacement CO2 cartridges are where they get you. You get 3 for $44.

 

[Aquatic_Adam]

Forgot to add. The airstone is counterproductive in the tank. Except at night if you don't turn the CO2 off.

Plants actually release CO2 at night, add that to the CO2 and fish and you could have some possible pH swings on your hand.

 

[Annakhil]

I'm just chiming in to say that predfan is an expert on planted tanks so I would have to agree with him!

 

[Aquatic_Adam]

I'm just chiming in to say that predfan is an expert on planted tanks so I would have to agree with him!

Haha thanks :blush: but I'll leave the expert status to Aqua_Chem!

 

[ianeberle]

How long does one can of pressurized CO2 last? And do most CO2 systems come with timers or is that another expense? Also, can you give me the general rundown of care of a tank with CO2? Like I know you can kill everything if you screw up, so I want to be 100% sure before I buy anything.

 

[ianeberle]

Is this the one you have? It would only be $30 for my small 10 gallon tank and it looks like the refills are $14 for 3 cans. If a can lasts about one month, then I can get 3 months of CO2 for $14... I think that's fairly inexpensive.

Anyway, if I bought this Fluval system would I need anything else? Air stone to use at night? What else is recommended? Also I have a standard fluorescent light on there now. It's probably recommended to go T5 isn't it? Are there any good LED fixtures that are cheaper than a T5 lamp? I would only go LED if I was sure that it put out the amount of light I need.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3747+23680&pcatid=23680&r=487

 

[aqua_chem]

I think you are grossly overestimating the value of the disposable CO2 cartridge sets. The 20g will probably last a matter of weeks. The anecdotes that I found about this set had the 20g lasting for about a week at 1bubble/3 seconds and the 88g lasting about 2-2 1/2 weeks at 1 bpm.

As far as CO2 goes, the spectrum for me goes right from DIY CO2 with 2L bottles and yeast to a regulator setup. Nothing between those two points, including the cartridge diffusers, premade yeast reactors, etc, are worth spending money on.

On the topic of lighting, 10g are a bit more difficult to light. There aren't any real decent T5 fixtures for a 20" tank that fit our purposes. That being said, you can put 10-15w CFL bulbs in a normal incandescent hood and have enough light to be comfortable growing many things.

Ferts is a bit different. As a rule, I recommend anyone looking into a high light, high CO2 tank to heavily consider getting dry ferts, as it affords you more control, will be loads cheaper in the long run, and makes sure you always have all the nutrients that you need. While you can get away with premade ferts on high-demand smaller tanks, such as a 10g, the aforementioned points diminish its viability somewhat.

 

[ianeberle]

aqua_chem,

Please tell me exactly what I should buy. Right now I have a single 15W standard fluorescent light and it doesn't seem to me like enough light. I found a 72W T5 light online for about $50 and it looks like a superb deal.

Odyssea T5 Aquarium Lighting

As far as CO2, I'm still not sure what I want to do. What do you recommend?

I'm planning on ordering the T5 light this weekend whenever my paycheck comes in. I want to build this 10 gallon tank slowly paycheck by paycheck for a couple of reasons:

1. I'm obsessed with spending money on fish stuff and if I spread it out over one month or so instead of buying every component in one day, I will fuel my obsession over time and spend less money.

2. I don't want to throw everything in there at once and see it all die instantly. I want time for this tank to cycle properly and everything.

 

[aqua_chem]

What kind of budget do you have? Are you pretty set on 10g vs, say, 15g?

 

[ianeberle]

Considering the fact that I already have the 10 gallon tank with a 10 gallon stand set up with water, filter, and substrate in it - I think I'm pretty set with the 10 gallon

My budget for CO2 is around $40. If I can't get a store-bought system for that much, I would consider doing DIY as I am somewhat handy and can follow directions as long as they are well-written.

I have already dumped $150 into this tank that's going to house cherry shrimp, ottos, and 1 or 2 snails (to keep the bio load up). In addition to this 10 gallon, I have a 2 gallon betta setup and a 36 gallon community setup. So I'm spending money on all this as it is and I'm a college student, so money isn't abundant at the moment.

Is that light I linked to above a good choice? Thinking about ordering it in a few days.

 

[ianeberle]

Here's what it looks like so far. I bought a portion of java moss that I plan to attach to that driftwood as soon as it's done switching from emersed to submersed. It was completely brown a few days ago, now it's starting to regain some green.

I also have baby dwarf tears right in front of the driftwood. This is one of the main reasons I need T5 lights as this is a high light plant in order to spread to form a carpet.

 

[aqua_chem]

For that CO2 budget, I definitely recommend doing DIY CO2 and using that money somewhere else. 10g is a great size for DIY CO2. What kind of filter do you have on the tank?

Dry ferts can be had for ~$20-25 shipped if you want to go that route. There is an intimidating but doable learning curve associated with that, but it's great when it finally coalesces.

Light is more complicated. Your options range from all-in high light to moderate-but-more-controllable light. It really depends on what your 'vision' is for this tank.

 

[ianeberle]

I have this filter:

Amazon.com: AquaClear 20 Power Filter - 110 V, UL Listed (Includes AquaClear 20 Carbon, AquaClear 20 Foam & AquaClear 20 BioMax): Pet Supplies

I really like the look of the T5 lights both in how bright they are and how they sort of suspend over the tank. I also like the fact that it comes with moonlight LEDs that I can use for a couple of hours at night.

Odyssea T5 Aquarium Lighting

How much is a DIY system to set up and maintain? Also, is there anything I can do to make it look less ugly? I'm not a fan of the 2L soda bottles sitting on the shelf. I wouldn't mind paying $10 or so for bottles that are either stainless steel or plain black, but I don't know if this would affect the process or not. Most of the tutorials I have seen for DIY call for plastic bottles.

 

[aqua_chem]

Plastic bottles are usually used for a combination of reasons, but mostly because of their ability to handle pressure on not damage things in the event of a catastrophic failure (which sometimes happens). You can put it behind the tank I suppose..... but it's still a bit ugly.

The issue with 20" T5HO is that 1) That's way too much light and 2) You can't get bulbs for it (and the bulbs that come with that fixture are horrid). Unfortunately, with that brand the LEDs are notorious for failing in the first few weeks.

 

[ianeberle]

What about this?

Aquarium Lighting T5 Fluorescent Light Fixture: AquaticLife T5 HO Dual Lamp Light Fixtures

A bit more expensive, but I don't want to buy a POS.

 

[aqua_chem]

Better light, but still probably too much for a 10g.

 

[ianeberle]

Is the fixture I have adequate? I keep asking about these higher powered ones, but the one I have may actually be okay... Here it is (20'' version):

Aqueon Deluxe Full Fluorescent Black Aquarium Hoods - Aquarium Hood and Fish Tank Light from petco.com

Also, my girlfriend has a 10 gal tank with incandescent lighting and the water looks a terrible yellow/brown color. Would these work to replace the two incandescent bulbs without having to buy a whole new fixture for her?

Small Aquarium Lighting: Mini Compact Bulbs

Thanks for your help!

 

[aqua_chem]

You would replace it with spiral fluorescent lights like you linked, but I wouldn't recommend either of those bulbs. You can pick up 15w bulbs at Walmart or hardware stores for very cheap.

 

[ianeberle]

Okay, I will head to Walmart tomorrow for those.

Is it still safe to do the DIY build using my current light setup? I am also going to buy an airstone to release some of the CO2 at night when it's dark in the tank.

I found a great video to follow and I will make my CO2 system here in a couple of days after I have gathered all of the materials.

HOW TO: DIY CO2 for planted aquarium - YouTube