Do I HAVE to have a sump/refugium?

[ShooterRick]

Will a 20 gal sump service a 75 gal tank? Just curious since we are talking filtration. Also if a Aquaripure denitrifier is used do you need a skimmer and bio media? They make some large claims about this denitrifier.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Yes, you would still need a skimmer and live rock (live serves for all types of biomedia). A denitrator does only that, allows for denitrifying bacteria to remove nitrate if the live rock isn't enough. The live rock was enough in my tank, but that can depend on how much rock you have and your bioload (weight of fish plus food).

Any sump is better than no sump. I recommend getting the biggest tank you can that will fit in the sump. For a 75 this is usually a 30long.

 

[carey]

Do you have enough room underneath for a 20L tank? then you can have skimmer section, a large refugium and then a decent sized return pump area.

You also can just do the skimmer with filter socks for mechanical filtration and leave the refugium option open.

I have no idea about the denitrifiors...just what i read and there's no one I have heard mention that uses it.

 

[ShooterRick]

I have the 29 tank set up and running now. If I go to a 75 down the road I would think I can use it as a sump tank. Yes? Would the change over be a problem while the 75 cycles. How would you go about that?

 

[GreenMonster]

You know what? You guys talked me into it. I figure that I will just suck it up and do the extra work and put in a sump/refugium, because I asked myself and I will not be able to resist not wanting corals eventually! Lol the thing is... Is that the idea of installing a sump and refugium intimidates the **** out of me :/ I am aware that Aqueon makes a prebuilt sump/refugium model and I would like to go this route as I am more comfortable buying a pre made model rather then building one myself. So. Scrap the idea of using the canister filter? Or use both? Any advice here on how to get started, do's/don'ts would be very much appreciated as a sump/refugium is completely new ground for me

 

[carey]

I was a total wreck when I set up my first sump. You shoulda read the thread as it was going on, the 125g AND the whole sump idea was way too intense for me. BUT believe it or not it wasn't that hard with the help from the people on this forum.

There's a few tricks here and there and it will all come together. Now mind you, I'm not a very "handy" or DIY kinda gal but I did it and it works and I've never had a failure yet.

 

[GreenMonster]

I can only imagine lol so the refugium/sump is a definite buy for me, along with a protein skimmer. Which I will do more research on and find out which one would be the best for me to use. As far as return pumps go, how are they installed? I've skimming here and there and I've read that some people have to drill holes for them or something like that? Which is a real turn off for me.. Especially since my aquarium is glass.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Reefkeeping.org has some good articles on sump design.

The book 'Reef Invertebrates' by Calfo and Fenner is great. It has whole chapters on live sand, live rock, rerugiums, etc. It is one of few books that even in the age of the internet is worth buying. They had to go independent publishing since apparently at least one of them has a huge issue with aquacultured rock (almost a rant in the book), but overall invaluable info.

 

[Sarcothelia]

I highly recommend 'Reef Invertebrates' along with Fishguy. Bob Fenner answers questions on WWM as well and has proven himself a wealth of information, very reliable guy.

 

[GreenMonster]

Alright, I will definitely have to check that out thank you. What are some good corals to start out with for beginners? I plan on getting a pair of clowns so if their is a hardy anemone out their I'm all ears

 

[Jlsardina]

My return pump is hooked into my display tank with tubing and not a PVC pipe. Maybe you could look into something like that as an alternate to drilling.

 

[Fishguy2727]

You don't have to drill at all. With overflow boxes and return jets like Eshopps' you can setup a sump on a tank that is already running, no drilling necessary.

BUT, drilling is a better way to go for the drain.

 

[GreenMonster]

Yea I saw some tanks online that overflow boxes and attached to them were tubing and PVC running down into the sump. I'm also thinking about building my own aquarium stand as it is looking to be about impossible to find one that will house a 30 gallon sump with ease

 

[rdnelson99]

You don't have to drill at all. With overflow boxes and return jets like Eshopps' you can setup a sump on a tank that is already running, no drilling necessary.

BUT, drilling is a better way to go for the drain.

Would love to learn a bit more about this. I checked into the HOB Overflow and while some of the DIY ones looked pretty good I am nervous about flooding. Seems like if anything gets out of kilter you run a much higher risk than with a drilled tank.

 

[Fishguy2727]

The biggest issue is that if the u-tube loses its siphon you lose your drain. In this case your sump pump is filling the tank with nowhere for the water to go. I had issues with the one that came with my overflow box, it would lose siphon any time the pump was turned off. I bought one that was about an inch longer on each side and never had that issue again. Since a drilled tank doesn't rely on a siphon, just a drain, it takes a physical blockage to stop/reduce flow.

For any sump the best thing to do is to fill the tank until it is overflowing into the sump, then fill the sump all the way with the pump OFF. Then turn the pump on and mark on the sump where the water level drops down to. This is your safety fill level, the level at which the sump will not flood if the pump stops or the power goes out. This way you know how much you can top off with the pump on.

 

[rdnelson99]

The biggest issue is that if the u-tube loses its siphon you lose your drain. In this case your sump pump is filling the tank with nowhere for the water to go. I had issues with the one that came with my overflow box, it would lose siphon any time the pump was turned off. I bought one that was about an inch longer on each side and never had that issue again. Since a drilled tank doesn't rely on a siphon, just a drain, it takes a physical blockage to stop/reduce flow.

For any sump the best thing to do is to fill the tank until it is overflowing into the sump, then fill the sump all the way with the pump OFF. Then turn the pump on and mark on the sump where the water level drops down to. This is your safety fill level, the level at which the sump will not flood if the pump stops or the power goes out. This way you know how much you can top off with the pump on.

Keeping the sump from overflowing doesn't worry me that much. What worries me the most is if you lose the siphon but the return pump continues to run. Seems to me the only possible solution for most people would be to maintain a low enough water line in the tank to allow the full sump capacity to pump to the tank without overflow. Draw back there is, the water line would be visible and the tank will always look like it needs topping off.

I have seen designs for overflow boxes that use the venturi tube off a power head to restart the siphon in case of a power outage but????? Seems like if the power goes out you lose the siphon then when power is restored your pump starts to run in the sump, if the siphon doesn't start you are in a world of hurt. I guess you could put a float switch on the tank that would cut off the pump if the level were to rise beyond a certain point but that is introducing a lot of stuff that could fail.

 

[GreenMonster]

I do believe the they make reef controllers that can sense a rise in water level and turn it off if something like that happens right? Also, since I am going to introduce corals into my tank eventually should I look at the benefit of installing a calcium reactor? What exactly does it do?

 

[carey]

I keep my tank full enough so that it doesnt show a water line and sump at the minimum water level to cover my return pump. I use a aqualifter pump with my overflow so if the power goes out my siphon and my return pump both go out. Only the water above the teeth and left in the system will flow back into my sump which has plenty of room. If my return pump were to fail then the water level in the sump would just fill it. If my siphon fails theres enough space in my tank for it and since I keep the sump level low theres not alot of water that could go back in.

A good note is to add a hole to the return jet just above the water line or at the water line. If the power goes out the return pump line will just back siphon ALL the water thats above the plastic output into the sump which would be very bad.

I've had several power outages which is nothing new and have yet to have an issue. Fingers crossed** lol

 

[rdnelson99]

So Carey, you are using a two pump system?? Seems to me that if one pump fails but other continues you got trouble. I understand the whole part of keeping the water level in the sump to a min but doesn't that defeat some of the usefulness of the sump? Maybe I am thinking too much into this. LOL

You should have seen all the thinking and planning when I built my DIY filter and bio-filter for my ponds. Then tied to the two ponds together. It pumps from one pond under pressure through the prefilter then to the bio-filter. From there it is gravity feed to the waterfall and first pond, then gravity feed underground between the two ponds. No problems yet but if it overflows, my grass gets a good watering with some high nutrient water. LOL Don't think my carpet is all that thirsty so....... To ensure I don't pump the pond with fish dry, I set the pump up high in the pond.

 

[carey]

Oh no, I have just one return pump. I have the aqualifter on the overflow so that the continous siphon overflow I bought works.

I also think a dual return pump setup has too many what if's plus I wanted to keep it really really simple. lol