dry fert explanation

[blizowman1]

so im running a 90g planted tank......
i have a aquaclear 70 and a sunsun 303b or something like that
i have a 3x54w t5ho catalina aquarium fixture
120 lbs of eco complete and maybe 30lbs of flourite mixed into that
i run my lights on a 8hr timer and run my pressurized co2 on a timer that starts one hr before and ends one hour before my lights. my co2 is running at maybe 2-3bps. i dont currently have a drop checker but am planning on buying one really soon. a friend off of another fish site sent me a sample of some dry ferts to try out on my tank.... he sent me a bottle of the micro macro mix from aquariumfertilizer.com.... i am planning on buying me a order of the micro macro mix and a order of potassium sulfate. will this be all i need or is there other dry ferts i should think about ordering????

and what all kind of test kits do i need i have the api master kit or whatever it is and a seachem iron test kit, what else should i pick up cause im really new to ferts and dont exactly understand what everything is yet

 

[Rivercats]

If you order the $19.99 macro/micro mix that has everything you need. I also suggest an API Phosphate test kit since you are going to want to know your phosphate readings as well as you nitrates.

 

[blizowman1]

You don't think I would need potassium or gh boost for periodic doses??

 

[jetajockey]

the macro/micro mix from aquariumfertilizer has potassium sulfate in it. It also has mgso4 in it.

 

[blizowman1]

What is Mgso4

 

[jetajockey]

Magnesium sulfate. It boosts GH (along with calcium)

 

[blizowman1]

So then the micro macro mix should be everything I need?? Nothing more nothing less??

 

[jetajockey]

Pretty much, yeah. You might want to dose iron also at some point but it's not mandatory or necessary in some tanks. Considering the setup you have, if you plan to keep it heavily planted then I'd go ahead and order the iron also. The macro that isn't in this mix is po4 but generally there is a good level of this in any tank where fish are being fed regularly.

 

[blizowman1]

So the chelated iron is what I should get?? And what exactly is plantex csm+b

 

[blizowman1]

And I didn't think you were supposed to have macros and micros mixed in the same mixture

 

[Rivercats]

Magnesium MgSO4 isn't in the macro mix. BUT unless you have super soft water you get plenty of Magnesium in your tap water. You can always get a GH and KH test kit, API makes one with both tests in it, and see what your readings are. If you GH is 4 or over you have enough magnesium in the tank. I monitor these.

You don't mix the macro and micro's together in the same bottle. I use the 1000ml dosing bottles they sell at GreenLeaf Aquarium as they make dosing really easy. You need one for mixing micros in and one for mixing macros in. Personally I mix nitrates in one bottle and the potassium and phosphates in another bottle so I can better adjust my macro's to fit the needs of my tank. Then micros in a 3rd bottle. It's just a suggestion. Plus when you dose you dose macros at one end of the tank and micros in the other end of the tank.

The Plantex CSM+B is your micro mix. It also contains iron and unless you have alot of non-green plants like I do your tank should get enough iron from that. But if you want to get more the Cleated Iron is what you would buy.

I use this macro/micro mix in my 220g heavily planted high light tank and have had very good results using it. But you need to be sure to test your levels of phosphates and nitrates to see where your levels are. Nitrates should be 10-20ppm and phosphates .5-1ppm in a planted tank.

 

[aqua_chem]

If you need to dose more iron, you can just dose more CSM+B. Iron is by far the biggest component of the mixture, and overdosing the other micros isn't very detrimental to the tank, if it's not outright beneficial. Short of some specialty use, such as in the case of very hard, high pH water, buy other iron supplements isn't necessary.

 

[blizowman1]

See the micro macro mix from aquarium fertilizer.com comes with all the powders mixed together in a lb bag it doesn't come in seperate bags for each fert

 

[Rivercats]

See the micro macro mix from aquarium fertilizer.com comes with all the powders mixed together in a lb bag it doesn't come in seperate bags for each fert

Sorry but a mix that contains micros and macros isn't a good idea because if I remember correctly, there is a conflict between the mix that has phosphate and the mix that has iron and if mixed together will cause one fert to precipitate out of solution. If it precipitates out of solution, it isn't getting added to the aquarium.

By having micros in one bottle and macros in one or two bottles you can adjust dosages according to what your tank needs. I run a low nitrate/high phosphate tank so for me having the two macros in seperate bottles allows me to dose the way I need to.

 

[blizowman1]

Well this is the email I received back from aquariumfertilizer

There is no monopotassium phosphate in the Macro Micro Nutrient Mix. And you can dose either iron chelate or ferrous gluconate and MKP. Although the iron is a problematic supplement for those very reasons I have never heard this idea of the iron binding with the MKP and not being bioavailable.

Why would I need to dose iron chelate or ferrous glauconate and MKP

 

[Rivercats]

If you recieved that email from them it must have been a question you wondered about also. I dose PPS-Pro using:

59 grams K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate)
65 grams KNO3 (Potassium nitrate)
6 grams KH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate)

which if added to the micro mix cause the phosphate and iron to precitipate if mixed together.

 

[aqua_chem]

Iron will precipitate out of solution in the form of insoluble FePO4 salt. This is hard fact to anyone familiar with aqueous phase chemistry, and is easily provable.


BUT


It's always more complicated than that. There is a difference between chelated metals and free ions, in that chelated metals are much less reactive, including precipitation. Because of this, you dont need to worry about iron and phosphate immediately precipitating out of solution, but the long term survivability of iron is probably questionable. As far as I know, no one equipped with the proper tools has observed long term iron levels in phosphate enriched waters.



ANOTHER BUT


If you make a concentrated solution of iron and phosphate solution, the EDTA will eventually release the iron, and will precipitate out of solution. That's why you cant store micros and macros in the same mix. This is probably the reason that this package (that I personally wouldn't recommend) doesn't include iron.


Also, you don't need to dose iron if you're already dosing EDTA Fe, as is in Plantex CSM+B

 

[blizowman1]

Macro Micro Nutrient Mix 1 lb contains 1 equal part each of Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Plantex CSM+B. See mixing and dosing instructions in the FAQ's.

CSM+B Plantex 1 lb, a micro nutrient mix,
See mixing and dosing instructions in the FAQ's. Chemical analysis found in more information and FAQ's.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Total magnesium - water soluble chelated magnesium 1.5%
Copper - chelated 0.1%
Iron - chelated 7.0%
Manganese - chelated 2.0%
Molybdenum 0.06%
Zinc - chelated 0.40%
Boron 0.04%
EDTA - minimum content 55%



This is the break down of the micromacro mix do any of y'all see any problems your talking about

 

[Rivercats]

Quote:[And I didn't think you were supposed to have macros and micros mixed in the same mixture] [im really new to ferts and dont exactly understand what everything is yet]

The problem I see is still the phosphates mixed into the micro mix which contains iron. Plus you can't customize your macros to the needs of your aquarium.

 

[blizowman1]

Speaking of dry ferts I've heard of dry prime where can I get some of this ??