Dwarf gourami bottom dweller, but reg. top dweller?

[7Enigma]

Hey everyone I changed the title of the topic because I'm a bit confused. I was at PetSmart today and they had dwarf gourami's labeled as bottom dwellers, but normal gourami's as top dwellers? Is this true? I am looking to get a top dwelling fish to complement my mid/bottom dwellers and don't want to get the dwarf if indeed it spends most of its time near the substrate. Thanks!










Hey everyone,

It's been quite a while since I thought of adding a new fish but the bug has gotten to me again, and there's a couple reasons why.

1. I have a moderate/heavily planted tank with CO2 injection so I'm soaking up the nitrAtes pretty well (so bioload is not really an issue)

2. I do 50% PWC's each week due to the plants and ferts dosed

3. None, I mean NONE of my current fish spend ANY time in the upper 2/3rd's of the tank. I have 6 tiger barbs, 3 other assorted barbs, 2 Oto's, 1 BN pleco, and 1 cory (all now adults as they have been in the tank since Feb06, BN pleco was purchased a couple months ago but was fully grown when purchased). And none of them (other than the Oto's) are ever in 2/3rd's of the tank unless its feeding time. It's like they hate it or something? There is somewhat of a current up there from the HOB filter, and my tank does have a 65w CF light on it (20gallon high), but comon, I rarely see them in the tank!


I'm thinking something like a dwarf gourami or some other fish that can handle its own against the tiger barbs (which are pretty aggressive), and that would spend most of its time in the upper part of the tank, that would be okay solo (ie no shoaling fish), and that obviously wouldn't get too big for my tank.

I know normally my tank would be considered fully stocked but taking into account the plant level and 50% PWC each week, I don't think its a problem.

Thanks in advance!

 

[hc8719]

this is your 20 gallon tank? even if the upper 2/3rds are empty, with the other fish, it migh be pushing the bio-load. and i'd think the barbs would harass anyone they saw free swimming near the top

 

[MyCatsDrool]

I am suprised that the barbs aren't all over the place...my experiences with them, they were everywhere in the tank.

upper 2/3rds with barbs and no schoaling/schooling will be a tough find....maybe a female betta would be ok. Male has too long of fins. Other than that, I don't know.

I'd personally look into a larger tank, because the ottos and corys should be in much larger schools (4-5 each), and it would give you room for a tough dither fish like giant danios.

 

[7Enigma]

I originally had 3 cory's. 2 were essentially killed by the barbs. I also had several more oto's that either didn't make it through the acclimation period, or on 2 cases were also killed by the barbs (gaping wounds in the gills before they died).

No idea whether the barbs would cause problems with surface swimming fish. All the problems I've experienced so far have been due to territory battles at the bottom of the tank.

 

[lovemybarbs]

I'm always shocked to hear that barbs do any of this stuff. I guess I add the right type of fish. Black ruby barbs are pretty if you can find them.

 

[7Enigma]

I'm always shocked to hear that barbs do any of this stuff. I guess I add the right type of fish. Black ruby barbs are pretty if you can find them.

Barbs like any species group have their different temperaments (as I'm sure you know). My gold checkered cherry barbs (some weird crossbreed) are extremely docile. Tiger barbs are on the complete other end of the spectrum IMO and are very testy and easily riled up. To be fair most of my losses with at least the cory's were at the beginning of my setup, and the tank was virtually bare (2 pots, and that's pretty much it), so there definitely wasn't the hiding spots there are now.

I'd like to stay away from barbs since I now have 2 species of them and both stay at the bottom of the tank. I'm looking for a top dweller (such as a dwarf gourami based on what I've read about them), that won't get very large, but will be large enough to hopefully keep the tigers at bay, and stay out of their territory.

I have great ground cover, so if the gourami was to spend its time higher up, very few spots would even have a line of sight view of the gourami. I also have now a good patch of riccia in my QT tank that could be placed floating in the main tank once I get pressurized setup (it didn't like my main tank probably due to the Excel I was dosing and possible CO2 starvation). I'll also allow my stargrass and Rotala to stay much closer to the surface than I do now (right now I pretty much let it overgrow, then do a serious cutback). All of that should allow for a good ground an upper tank cover that should help keep any type of aggression to a minimum.

And I see the comments about bioload. I mentioned in my first post that this tank is uncommon compared to most. If you are not familiar with a high light, CO2 injected, heavily planted FW tank, it might seem like too many fish. But all of those factors allow the plants to absorb a large amount of ammonia/nitrAte, and the 50% PWC each week further reduces any buildup of nitrAtes. Once I get my pressurized setup up and running, I'm confident that will further increase my nitrAte consumption.

I'm more concerned about the compatibility of my tankmates. Thanks for all the advice so far. Please keep it coming!

EDIT: Here's a tank pic for reference of what I consider a moderately to heavily planted tank. This was right AFTER a major pruning. Normally it is much more dense:

EDIT #2: The other thing I've been reading (since I'm really pretty set on a dwarf gourami unless someone has firsthand knowledge that they will get torn to pieces with the barbs) is that they are very prone to internal parasites and should have a 3 week quarantine with medicated food for parasites. That gives me quite a long time if I decide to go with a gourami before it will be introduced into the main tank. I would use my 10gallon QT tank that is currently a snail farm (with clippings from my main tank) for quarantine.

 

[Musket]

Your tank looks nice. Sorry I have no experience with barbs. However I have a dwarf gourami in my 48g bow with 2 fire mouth meeki. THey tend to bother the larger angel instead of him. I had 2, but one died due to a tumor she had. I'm considering getting one or two more since he seems so lonely now she has passed on. Keeping some good floating or tall stalks to give coverage is a good idea. My dwarf is over a year old and still only 1" long. I've seen other dwarfs get larger, so do a little research as to the final size you'd like. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

FWIW, I did try a close cousin of the D.Gourami with tiger barbs, a paradise fish, and it got nipped to death. They are not fast swimmers, and won't be able to get away from the speed of the barbs...if the barbs are nippers.

You want something tough and fast with short fins that is top dwelling, and non schooling. There aren't a lot of options in that realm. The only fish I can think of is a female betta, and they are not fast. They are however, tough, short finned, solitary and top dwelling. 4 out of 5 ain't bad.

Another I might consider is a molly, platy or swordtail. Get a shortfinned one that is not a ballon type. Another top dweller that can be found shortfinned, relatively fast and tough, can be solitary, and top dwelling. Also, their bright color might throw the barbs off. I have had success with mollies and barbs.

 

[7Enigma]

My lilypad-like moneywort is now much longer (closer to the surface) and larger than the picture. The christmas moss has also about tripled in size from that picture as well. And I am constantly throwing out the stargrass because it grows so fast so I'll have ample cover. Thanks for the post!

EDIT:

MyCatsDrool, I thought mollies were brackish water fish?

 

[zenkatydid]

mollies live perfectly well in freshwater, but can also live in brackish. 99% of the mollies i've known have lived in freshwater.

 

[7Enigma]

Is it one of those species that as they mature "prefer" brackish conditions, or are they just very adaptable?

I have to go to PetSmart to get more food for my cats, and will be walking by the fish department to check out their selection of gourami's. I don't plan on buying from there, but I can always window shop right? Also how do you pronounce gourami? I don't want to sound like an idiot when I call my LFS (where I get my fish from). Thanks.

I had assumed it was GORE-AHHH-ME.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

gore-aah-me

keep a close eye on it with those tiger barbs. especially their whisker fins, and scales. they are much slower than the tigers and very often get nipped badly.

 

[7Enigma]

gore-aah-me

keep a close eye on it with those tiger barbs. especially their whisker fins, and scales. they are much slower than the tigers and very often get nipped badly.

Looking at my tank pic (earlier post) and knowing I will be growing it out more and have some floating plants, do you think its a viable option to get a gourami? I do not want to risk it if its the expected outcome, but would really like to get 1 more upper level tankmate!

 

[MyCatsDrool]

Really depends on the attitude of the barbs. I could be ok, it could be disaster. How are the barbs acting toward each other?

 

[7Enigma]

They have an established pecking order that is pretty funny after a large PWC or heavy pruning. There is always the 2nd in command that challenges the alpha when the tank conditions change. I've never watched closely enough to see if the pecking order ever changes, but they definitely keep the aggression (now) amongst themselves. My big yellow barb that was almost killed twice by an aggressive male (not a tiger, and no longer in the tank) has now outgrown the tigers and they don't bother her. There are 2 other small barbs that seem to be the loners and they stay away from the tigers for the most part (and each other really).

So all in all, the tigers in-fight and are relatively peaceful to the rest (because they are always busy with each other).

 

[7Enigma]

Can anyone comment on the medicated food I should buy for the gourami? Specifics would be good (ie something I can get at PetSmart or Big Al's). I see on Big Al's site Jungle's anti-parasite and anti-bacterial foods. Are name-brands important when shopping for medicated food?

I'll be doing a heavy diatom filtering of my QT tank today and several water changes to get it ready for the new fish. Does anyone know how they (gourami) behave around snails? This is a snail farm when not in use to keep up the filter and also is a clipping tank for plants. I would prefer to keep the snails in the QT tank, but if gourami's are known snail eaters I might have to move most of them out?

Thanks!

 

[7Enigma]

So I just got back from the LFS. Please for future reference NEVER allow me to go to PetSmart to buy a fish. My LFS is old-school, writes directly on the tank with marker the inhabitants and the price, looks dirty, and things are difficult to find. BUT, I saw maybe 3 dead fish in the 50 tanks I looked at, and no signs of disease/damage. In the dwarf gourami tank there was about 15 different ones (all males), and I spent a good 10 minutes staring at the tank trying to make my decision. There were 2 powder-blue ones, both looked not so great, a couple typical ones with the red vertical stripes, some fire ones, and then a very interesting mixed breed that I ended up selecting.

This one looked like a fire one, but the dorsal fin was blue like a powder. Solidifying my decision was that the one I honed in on was the alpha male of the entire tank. There was a single plastic castle thing in the center and he clearly owned the joint. I'm hoping he was the healthiest as I would assume alpha's get the best/most food first, his feeler-things were equal length and both present, I saw no nipped fins, and I wanted him to be able to handle himself in my tank with the tiger's.

I asked my wife to not lose that guy and got a worker who fished out this particular one on the first try. I couldn't believe my luck. So he's now acclimating in my QT tank, and I'm adding in small bits of water every 10 min. Lights are off, and I put construction paper up on the walls since this tank is on the floor and my cats just LOVE to harass anything that moves (remember this was a snail tank when not in use and the cats ignore the small snails).

I'll be interested to see how the gourami takes to all the snails moving about.

I'll post up some pics after I'm comfortable that he's not stressed, and when I can lock the cats out of the room!

Thanks everyone for your help!

EDIT: 1hour acclimation is complete and I'll be dumping out most of the water from the bag and then putting him in. Due to those feeler appendages I do not feel comfortable netting him out for risk of damaging them. The small bit of water from the LFS doesn't bother me especially since he's in QT for at least 2-3 weeks.

 

[neilanh]

Sounds like a great find, Congrats!

 

[rich311k]

Congrats, good luck with him.

 

[JustOneMore20]

I was at PetSmart today and they had dwarf gourami's labeled as bottom dwellers, but normal gourami's as top dwellers? Is this true?

I know you already got your gourami, but just wanted to comment on the label. I have an Opaline gourami in my 55g. He is very shy and always has been (was in my 29g before). He hides alot at the bottom of the tank. Usually when I'm not around, but sneak in my room (where the tank is) he's at the top, hiding in the plants. But, when I'm near the tank and he sees me, he usually hides near the bottom. So, its my experience that they probably spend most of their time near the top (since they take air from the surface), but will also spend some time near the bottom. I'm not sure if thats just how my gourami is or if they are all like that.