Dying Plants...

[Andrewz00]

So i have a 90gal medium planted tank.... set up for over a year... but it was moved 6 months ago.... Eheim classic 2217, Hagen Glo T5 HO Lighting System, 2 Life-Glo 48" T5 HO bulbs, Aqueon 150W heater....

NO CO2... i do have a powerhead that kicks on after my lights go out to introduce air into the water column....

running a 18 off/ 6 on light cycle (6pm - 12am)

dose Seachem Flourish Excel every other day...

i have:
cyperus helferi
cryptocoryne spiralis
egeria densa anacharis

for the past week or 2 i have been noticing that the cyperus helferi have started to brown/die towards the center of the plant... and the cryptocoryne spiralis keep dropping leaves....

both plants seem to be growing new sprouts but none get very tall....

any suggestions?

 

[fort384]

Can you perhaps post some pics of the plant?

Seems like a pretty short photoperiod but I would think with your lighting it should be enough.

Are you dosing any fert and what kind/how much? What kind of substrate do you have?

 

[Andrewz00]

No ferts other the the Excel (not sure if you would consider that a fert) .... and a gravel substrate...

the photopierd was figured out through trial and error and watching algae grow...

i will try to grab some pics tonight after work....

 

[fort384]

It sounds like it could possibly be a nutrient deficiency since you are not dosing any ferts. You have a pretty good amount over the tank, and it is possible you are bottoming out on 1 or more nutrients.

At a minimum, I would recommend dosing tetra florapride or leafzone, both of which are a source of Fe and K (Iron and Potassium). Some root tabs would be beneficial for your plant choices as well. However, it may be prudent (and cheaper!) to look into picking up some dry fertilizer...

Have you tested your nitrates lately? Curious what they are testing out at.

Do you happen to have a Phosphate (PO4) test kit?

Once you post some pics, it could help with narrowing down which nutrient, if any, could be the source of the problem.

 

[BigJim]

+1 for being a nutrient deficiency.

 

[Andrewz00]

nitrates were steady 0-5ppm for months... last test was about 2weeks ago... i will test tonight along with taking some pics.

I do not believe i have a PO4 test kit, if i do im sure its out dated anyway... prob should look into getting one.

i KNOW i was over feeding my tank for awhile... and i recently cut back on that... that could cause a nutrient deficiency right?

 

[fort384]

It sounds to me like you are bottoming out on nitrates and it is catching up with your plants. I would consider ordering some dry ferts from rexgrigg.com or another source and start a dosing regiment... beginning with Nitrogen (KNO3), Potassium (K2SO4), and some Plantex CSM+B. Also, KH2PO4 for Phosphorus may or may not be necessary... your tank is probably right on the edge of needing it. To tell for sure you could get a PO4 test kit and see if there is any PO4 available for plant uptake... or you could start dosing it as well and see how the plants respond if you don't want to pay for the test kit.

 

[ph7]

No nitrates? Nitrates /are/ a fert. I recommend EI (estimative index) dosing at half dose because you use no co2.

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[Andrewz00]

so i tested my nitrates... they are between 5 and 10 ppm

i tried to get a few pics so you could see the brown spots... kinda hard to grab in a pic...

 

[mommytron]

did you just start dosing the excel or dosing it more? i know that some plants (like the italian and red jungle vals i had) don't like excel, and will slowly melt from it. my vals stayed alive for a while, and even sprouted off a few shoots, but eventually they all melted away HTH it's a nice plant

 

[Andrewz00]

nope... excel dosing has been fairly consistent.... i had that happen to my crypt wendtii... they completely melted...

 

[mommytron]

that's both too bad and kinda weird. i have crypt wendtii as well, and it's all doing great. none of it even got crypt melt when first introduced to my tank. it all looks great. it's not growing super fast however, but that could be due to my <1wpg lighting... (which will hopefully change soon!)

 

[fort384]

Based on the pics, and what we know, I would say Nitrogen deficiency a/o potassium deficiency. A little Fe wouldn't hurt either, based on the fact that the tank is a year old and you haven't been dosing any macros with as much light as you have.

If it were my tank, I would add KNO3 and K2SO4, and consider bumping the light up an hour.

 

[Andrewz00]

could you recommend a brand and dosing for each of the KNO3 and K2SO4.... and maybe an English translation to each of those?

 

[fort384]

lol certainly!

Rather than the actual dose you add, lets talk target levels of each nutrient:
Nitrates 10-20ppm
Phosphates 1.0-2.0 ppm
Iron 0.1-1.0 ppm
Potassium 10-20 ppm

Now, how you add these... it depends on what you want to do. You can buy liquid fertilizer off the shelf or online that will dose 1 or more of these nutrients, plus other trace elements like Fe, B, Mg, Mn, etc. This is an easy method I suppose, because it will come with recommended dosing, and you can just add it in. It is also extremely expensive in the long run. A bottle of each of an N, P, and K fert plus a bottle of trace fert would run you from $20-40 depending on brands and pricing. These would last a few months or so depending...

For about $25 you could buy enough dry fertilizer to last you a few years. However, you either have to measure based on your tank parameters and size each time you dose (and it is SMALL amounts... like 1/8s of a teaspoon... or you can do what most do and buy some distilled water, mix up the ferts in known concentrations, and it makes it easier to dose.

As for how you dose each of the nutrients:

KNO3 - Potassium Nitrate. This doses primarily N (nitrogen) in the form of nitrates. It has the side benefit of also adding some K (potassium).

K2SO4 - Potassium Sulfate. This is how you primarily dose Potassium (K).

KH2PO4 - Mono potassium phosphate. This is how you primarily dose P (phosphorus, in the form of phosphate).

Trace elements are also dosed via a dry mix called plantex CSM+B. This contains Fe (Iron), as well as many other trace elements beneficial for aquatic plants.

For more info, go to Welcome to Rex's Guide to Planted Tanks . He has a lot of good info, talks about dry ferts and their ingredients, how to dose them, etc. He also has a link to his "store" where you can buy all of these ferts very reasonably.

 

[Andrewz00]

whoa... that sounds like a whole lot of info... and here i figured i could just stick a few plants in the tank and go about business as normal.... boy was i wrong...

so apparently i need to get a few more test kits (only have master kit right now)...
and pick up some dry ferts.... i check Dr. Foster & Smith... dont think they sell much... any suggestions? brands?

 

[fort384]

Dry ferts aren't going to be widely available. Here are 2 sources:

Fertilizers For The Planted Tank | Ferts
Planted Aquarium Fertilizer - Home

Have bought from both of them - both very reliable.

I don't know that you need to buy any more test kits... you already have the nitrate test kit... no need for a K test kit (you really can't over dose K unless you spill the bag into the tank or something). A PO4 test kit could be beneficial but not required. You can just figure out about how much you might need to dose, and adjust the dose up and down according to how the tank reacts. You may not even need to dose PO4... most people who don't run CO2 don't have a requirement for it.

I would dose N, K, and a good trace.

 

[ph7]

Please look into the "estimative index" method of dry ferts dosing. It's drop dead simple and so much less hassle than constantly testing and measuring. It is used by the so many championship aquascapers for a reason: it works. It works darn well. And you probably are operating with live plants because you like them -- not test kits.

Now don't go throwing away your test kit though. You're going to need it. However don't marry yourself to it and buy ten more. There's a practical, easy, cheap, safe, and proven way to enjoy a planted tank and still have a life. Google it. Learn it. Get your ferts. And get ready for some great fun.

I also encourage you to extend the photoperiod by an hour or two.

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[ph7]

I get my ferts here btw. http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/

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[Andrewz00]

OK guys.. thanks for all your help... im going to bump up the photoperiod by an hour tonight.... and start reading up on dry ferts... im quite interested in the "estimative index" method....