Few Questions - Need Some Help/Opinions

[thutton33]

Hello,
Well the worst thing possible happened this morning, Woke up to an entirely dead community (5 Angels, 3 Silver Dollars). I need some help with finding out what could have happened first of all.

Some Facts:
The Wife's Tank Still has some fish so the water used in water change may not be the cause (My tank is 75g and hers is 10g so there could be "Some" of the problem in her tank but not as much as mine and hence the difference)

I have not added fish in at least 6 months

I HAVE added java moss about a week ago and this is the first bad thing to happen, If it was the moss I would have expected it earlier

It was a very aged tank I have had it over 4 years

Waking up to the dead fish today BUT the moss was perfectly healthy no signs of withering or dying

The fish only showed a slight bit of cloud eye the night before the incident, I added Malefix (Directions we followed on dosage)

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Question 2

What do I need to do to make sure that the cause is removed before re-stocking.

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Question 3

Please give some suggestions on the "population" to restock it with (I would Like some Angels, so lets try to keep it as Friendly as possible)

 

[MCluett]

how did you acclimatize the fish? what are your parameters? i am a SW guy but people will need to know this info to help you out. also before restocking you should do a large PWC and definatly find out what the problem is first.

 

[thutton33]

Yes all the fish were properly acclimated as there have been there from 6 Months to 3 Years.

the water has been stable for years... I dont remember the stats 100% but it was PH of mid to high 6's constant temp of 30, Good filtration (Fluval 404)

 

[MCluett]

ok i think most people will still want to know the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels. would you be able to test them anytime soon?

 

[thutton33]

Yes I am running my full panel when I arrive home from work today, if I did have an ammonia spike (somhow) what would the symptoms be (IE how would the fish look once they die, characteristics) and would my Moss still be perfectly heathly?

 

[saffikeagan]

Who did the PWC on each of the tanks? Maybe something like hand lotion or soap on one set of hands not present on another.

 

[MCluett]

i dont what the fish would look like after but were any of the fish laboring to breath prior to there death? i know that is a sign of high ammonia

 

[thutton33]

as a matter of fact I think I did see laboured breating from my silver dollars and the angels (for the most part) were staying at the top, on my way to bed last night....

Wow would ammonia get in there? and would it not effect the moss? there was no lotion or anything like that it was myself that did the change (note the change was a few nights before this happend)

I do also use the water solution prior to the water going into the tank

 

[MCluett]

chemicals are not recommended if they are not needed. if it was ammonia it could have been caused by over feeding, or if you cleaned the filter to much removing the needed bacteria, which may have caused a mini cycle. check your ammonia when you get home to know for sure

 

[An t-iasg]

Some possibilities:
As already mentioned - did you remove too much filter media during a filter cleaning? Media like sponges and ceramic rings should only be rinsed gently in removed tank water, and this isn't necessary every week. You can replace filter floss once a week. Did you do a major redecoration or rearraging of the tank and stir up the substrate, possibly releasing a lot of rotting material that the biological filter can't handle right away? These situations could lead to an ammonia spike.

Is there any possibility that your heater malfunctioned?

Were the gills red? You mentioned labored breathing. That could be related to an ammonia spike or possibly a bacterial infection. Cloudy eyes are often an indicator of poor water quality. Is there any possibility that your tapwater source has changed? When was the last time you did a water change? Are they done regularly - once a week? Could you have possibly forgotten the dechlorinator?

 

[roka64]

I think you may have it narrowed down to the ammonia or heater. I just wanted to throw in stray voltage. That is something that could quickly nuke a tank (at least it did in mine).

 

[jsoong]

Ammonia is #1 on my list of suspects <and plants loves ammonia, so your java moss won't show anything.> A pH crash is a possibility (esp. with soft water and a pH of 6'ish to start). Certainly checking basic water parameters is the right start.

 

[thutton33]

More information now.

Test show ( I use the Test solutions not those stupid strips):
Ammonia Level - 0
PH Level - 6.0-6.4
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

I use the API Stress Coat Dechlorinator on every water change
The Temp has not gone above 30
The Gills on the Angels were red (but they normally are decently red on angels)
The Gills on the Silver dollars were not red at all
Most of the fish got the white clouded spot on the eyes before death (but only the night before death, not before)
The fishes fins seem to have gotten white spots on the ends the night before death, may not help much but it looked like a mid point between fin rot and ich... not 100% like either

I did approx 30% water change and added a fish from other tank to test ( I know it is slightly cruel and pained me to do it but I needed to check) it seemed to get the cloud eye and fin issue within 3-4 hours

any suggestions? I am debating empty the entire tank, washing with aquarium salt water (All parts, gravel and all) completly changing filter and starting from scratch, re-cycle and all.

HELP!

 

[rafecci]

I lost a bunch of fish in my FW system a few years back and simular symptoms - cloudy eyes and what I thought was ich. With the help of the LFS and lots of water testing it was determined to be a bacterial infection in the water. Ended up spending lots of money on antibiotics which killed all the good bacteria in the tank and ended up loosing the whole tank system. I managed to save two Bala Sharks and still have them today -

 

[An t-iasg]

Poor fish - I hope he's ok now. With the decline of that fish apparent in 3-4 hours, I would think there's some kind of bacteria in the tank. You could treat aggressively with an antibiotic but then you would need to re-cycle since the antibiotic would kill off the good bacteria also. Some packages say it won't but I've treated with various antibiotics and then did ammonia testing and I almost always saw an ammonia spike. But since you're willing to tear down the tank, I think that's the best choice to ensure the bacteria or contaminant is gone. I would wipe or soak everything in a diluted bleach solution (1 part bleach to 19 parts water - the "part" can be one cup or as small as 1/4 cup). I have read that people soak their gravel in the bleach solution, but everything needs to be rinsed very well. Then soak everything in fresh water with a triple or more dose of dechlorinator - it will break down the remaining traces of chlorine bleach. I have also read about putting the tank outside to sit in the sun - this will break down the remaining traces of bleach also.

 

[thutton33]

I may have some progress....

Last night I lower the level of the water to make sure there was no oxygen problems like the first time (IE my filter is splashing)

I added the dose of Malefix

Fish this morning is looking MUCH better. Lets just hope it keeps coming.

Thank you for all of your help!

Once the Tank is back to the beauty it was before this mess, ive got a stock list in mind that I will be adding at 2 fish a week.

2 Opaline Gouramis
2 Convicit Cichlids
4 Assorted Angels (Plan is somthing like 1 Platinum/1 Black/1 Koi/1 Zebra)

This is a 75G tank, Any thoughts or suggestions? ive got a while before I stock it there is no way im not confirming 100% its safe

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

What live plants do you have in there? Only moss?

 

[Jewel]

Only other thing I can think of is to ask you if there had been any cleaning with furniture polish or other cleaners near or around the tank? Reason I ask is that I once had a 55gal tank and my mother dusted the furniture with polish and the next day we had lost all our fish...the polish got sucked into the tank via the air pump.

 

[thutton33]

Only have the moss in there as I had Silver Dollars... Kinda hard to keep plants with the Pirana of vegitarians lol

and no there wasnt cleaning around the tank.

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

Well the reason I asked is if you have 0 nitrates and only have moss, then either your test kit is not working or you are just beginning the cycle of your tank(somehow killed off all the bacteria).

I would deff try the test again, shake the bottles vigorously, look at the date when it was made(nitrate expires fastest). Also it may be good to have someone else test the water like the LFS or another hobbyist that has a test kit.