Fin Biting or Fin Rot?

[Lila]

Hi, I'm really reaching out now because I literally have no clue on what to do:

A few months ago (probably like january), my betta started getting huge parts of his tail ripped out. I thought it was some sharp wood in the tank, so I removed most decor and left only a few plants. With no progress, I saw that it could be him biting his own fins, so I added more plants and that seemed to help. He was healing for the most part, until the other day when I saw a huge tear in his fins once more. I heard that fin biting is habitual at times, so with only one new rip I didn't think it was anything I could fix.

This morning, the area by the newest tear seems shredded and the tear itself is extremely high. Could this be fin rot? I have no idea how I would treat that if it was, so please let me know. He is a VERY skittish betta so if there is any method that is not too invasive please tell me, it wasn't until this week that he was comfortable enough to approach the front of the tank when it was time for food (and i've had him for 6 months!).

He has always had a bit of a crimp in his tail which looked like a previous injury but other than that there are continuously new tears that make me worried.

 

[Aiken Drum]

The colour of the betta makes it a bit difficult to see what kind of damage it is.

If it looks mushy, and gradually gets worse, then its more likely to be fin rot. If the damage is more clean, and happens over night then fin nipping, or getting caught on something.

Do you know your water parameters? Whats a normal water schedule? Have you tried any treatment?

Are you suggesting he might be biting his own fins or are there other fish that might be doing the nipping?

 

[Lila]

Hi,
He is in a 10g tank by himself, heavily planted with no sharp decor. I change the water every three weeks because the plants do a lot of the work, and I try not to disturb him because he gets scared by literally anything. I also haven’t tried any treatment because of this.

Parameters are currently:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm
Temp sits at about 80-81 degrees Fahrenheit

The tips of his fins were never perfect from where I bought him, but nothing has been affecting his entire fins if that makes sense.

I originally thought he was biting his fins because the pieces that were ripped were taken out in circular or like rounded, bite sized pieces

However as you can see in the photos the bottom of his fins look shredded and torn up, not really mushy but more like thin strands. This happened like in the span of two days.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hi,
He is in a 10g tank by himself, heavily planted with no sharp decor. I change the water every three weeks because the plants do a lot of the work, and I try not to disturb him because he gets scared by literally anything. I also haven’t tried any treatment because of this.

Parameters are currently:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm
Temp sits at about 80-81 degrees Fahrenheit

The tips of his fins were never perfect from where I bought him, but nothing has been affecting his entire fins if that makes sense.

I originally thought he was biting his fins because the pieces that were ripped were taken out in circular or like rounded, bite sized pieces

However as you can see in the photos the bottom of his fins look shredded and torn up, not really mushy but more like thin strands. This happened like in the span of two days.

Bettas need clean water to stay healthy. Weekly water changes are much better than anything else you can do for them. Plants may keep certain chemical levels lower but they so not add any minerals to the tank that the fish need. Fin rips are usually a sign of poor health when it's not caused by sharp objects or other fish. Fin rot is a sign of poor water quality. Even a planted tank will do better with frequent water changes so I would be doing at least a 10%-20% water change weekly at the least. Also, what you feed will play a big part in the fish's health. What are you feeding the fish?

 

[Lila]

Got it! I'll do more water changes then.

Currently I am feeding him a mix of the betta fluval bug bites and north fin betta bits, I've tried things with brine shrimp and even live food but he never seems interested.

 

[Andy Sager]

Got it! I'll do more water changes then.

Currently I am feeding him a mix of the betta fluval bug bites and north fin betta bits, I've tried things with brine shrimp and even live food but he never seems interested.

WOW!!! A betta that doesn't like live food is a rarity. Might need to set up an appointment with a fish Psychologist. jk. But it IS a rarity.

 

[Lila]

WOW!!! A betta that doesn't like live food is a rarity. Might need to set up an appointment with a fish Psychologist. jk. But it IS a rarity.

haha right, sad but true

On another note: it definitely is fin rot, this morning I noticed red around the damaged area and his fins are rapidly like disappearing. I don't know how to treat this and I'm really worried, I've never experienced fin rot, what can I do? Is it something that can be rid of? I know some of the API products have a bad rep so I don't want to jump to buy a medication like "fin and body cure" without knowing it is trustworthy, but I don't know what to useHow quick is something like this fatal especially since the symptoms are advancing so quickly?

This is literally such a bad photo I don't know why it looks blue but there is like a drastic change from yesterday. The parts that I highlighted in pink you can ignore since he just has natural redish coloring on him, but what I circled/underlined in red is all of the damage within the span of 3 days and the slight but noticeable redness. My heart actually hurts I feel so bad that this is happening

 

[Andy Sager]

haha right, sad but true

On another note: it definitely is fin rot, this morning I noticed red around the damaged area and his fins are rapidly like disappearing. I don't know how to treat this and I'm really worried, I've never experienced fin rot, what can I do? Is it something that can be rid of? I know some of the API products have a bad rep so I don't want to jump to buy a medication like "fin and body cure" without knowing it is trustworthy, but I don't know what to useHow quick is something like this fatal especially since the symptoms are advancing so quickly?

This is literally such a bad photo I don't know why it looks blue but there is like a drastic change from yesterday. The parts that I highlighted in pink you can ignore since he just has natural redish coloring on him, but what I circled/underlined in red is all of the damage within the span of 3 days and the slight but noticeable redness. My heart actually hurts I feel so bad that this is happening


View attachment 389832

What is the Ph and GH of your water? That will tell what the best med is.

 

[Lila]

What is the Ph and GH of your water? That will tell what the best med is.

I just used a api test strip here’s the results:
Nitrate: 20ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
PH: 6.0
KH: 40ppm
GH: about 140ppm

 

[Andy Sager]

I just used a api test strip here’s the results:
Nitrate: 20ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
PH: 6.0
KH: 40ppm
GH: about 140ppm

Okay, with a Ph that low, Nitrofurazone Green will be the best option for treating the rot. I would first do a partial water change to get the nitrates down a little more as nitrates are an acid which will not help the fins recuperate. You can get Nitrofurazone green in Furan-2, API Nitrofuracin Green ( AAP Nitrofuracin Green- Full Spectrum Treatment ) or Jungle Fungus Clear ( found on walmart website ) . I would use this in a separate aquarium from the main one as the med can effect some plants and possibly the biological filter. I would also use a combination of your water and RO or Distilled water in a 50/50 mix because nitrofurazone works best in a Ph under 7.0 and with lower GH levels. ( I would first do an experiment by making a small 50/50 mix and test the Ph to make sure it does not rise above 7.0. If it does, you'll want to adjust/reduce how much distilled water you use so that the Ph remains under 7.0. ) Follow the directions on any of the medications you choose.
Hope this helps.

 

[Lila]

Okay, with a Ph that low, Nitrofurazone Green will be the best option for treating the rot. I would first do a partial water change to get the nitrates down a little more as nitrates are an acid which will not help the fins recuperate. You can get Nitrofurazone green in Furan-2, API Nitrofuracin Green ( AAP Nitrofuracin Green- Full Spectrum Treatment ) or Jungle Fungus Clear ( found on walmart website ) . I would use this in a separate aquarium from the main one as the med can effect some plants and possibly the biological filter. I would also use a combination of your water and RO or Distilled water in a 50/50 mix because nitrofurazone works best in a Ph under 7.0 and with lower GH levels. ( I would first do an experiment by making a small 50/50 mix and test the Ph to make sure it does not rise above 7.0. If it does, you'll want to adjust/reduce how much distilled water you use so that the Ph remains under 7.0. ) Follow the directions on any of the medications you choose.
Hope this helps.

Just wanted to follow up:
I went with the Jungle Fungus Clear as it was the item that would ship the fastest, I set up a five gallon hospital tank a few days ago with 50/50 distilled water and my house water, it successfully brought the GH down to around 30-50ppm and the PH stayed relatively the same! I just added him to the tank today and started the first dose, but he seems a bit more active already. I'll check back once the doses are done if I need anything else, but thank you so much for the help!

 

[Andy Sager]

Just wanted to follow up:
I went with the Jungle Fungus Clear as it was the item that would ship the fastest, I set up a five gallon hospital tank a few days ago with 50/50 distilled water and my house water, it successfully brought the GH down to around 30-50ppm and the PH stayed relatively the same! I just added him to the tank today and started the first dose, but he seems a bit more active already. I'll check back once the doses are done if I need anything else, but thank you so much for the help!

 

[Lila]

Hi again,
It's been about a month. I originally dosed every 4 days with a water change in between. After about 2 doses the immediate redness went away and he seemed good. I kept him in the 5g hospital tank and dosed twice more 6 days apart with a 50% water change. He seemed alright, no regrowth but also no redness, still in the hospital tank just in case though. Today I noticed new fit rot sections on his lower fins T-T. He's still eating but mainly stays in the back of the tank behind the filter, not at the bottom though. I can continue to dose but I'm not sure the medicine I purchased is going to work long-term, but I don't want to give up on it yet because it seemed to work at the start..? What should I do?

 

[Andy Sager]

Your dosing 6 days apart doesn't sound right. Did you follow the directions exactly on the medicine? With any antibiotic, if you don't follow the directions, the bacteria can build a resistance to it.
Let's start there.

 

[Lila]

Your dosing 6 days apart doesn't sound right. Did you follow the directions exactly on the medicine? With any antibiotic, if you don't follow the directions, the bacteria can build a resistance to it.
Let's start there.

Right I had figured I made that mistake — the instructions said 4days apart with water change in between. After dosing twice I was away for like 3days and didn’t trust anyone to dose so I ended up doing it 6days apart. The second time I geniuenly forgot . But I was also wondering if it could be a resistance issue as well from those errors

 

[Andy Sager]

Right I had figured I made that mistake — the instructions said 4days apart with water change in between. After dosing twice I was away for like 3days and didn’t trust anyone to dose so I ended up doing it 6days apart. The second time I geniuenly forgot . But I was also wondering if it could be a resistance issue as well from those errors

If that's the case, it could be that the medicine wasn't present at a proper strength to work properly. I would check the water parameters again and if necessary, get them back to where they were when the med worked then retreat and follow the directions fully before switching to another one.

 

[af2018]

Got it! I'll do more water changes then.

Currently I am feeding him a mix of the betta fluval bug bites and north fin betta bits, I've tried things with brine shrimp and even live food but he never seems interested.

See if he likes bloodworms to switch up his diet and see if he likes it. It won’t help the fin issues. Just figured I’d throw that out since you said he seemed a little particular. Those bug bites seem addictive for them tho!

 

[Lila]

If that's the case, it could be that the medicine wasn't present at a proper strength to work properly. I would check the water parameters again and if necessary, get them back to where they were when the med worked then retreat and follow the directions fully before switching to another one.

I just did a 25% water change and replaced with purified water to even the gh out again. I'm restarting the dosing as the instructions say and ill keep you updated. I also think I was doing too large of water changes which may have contributed to the medicine not working (may have been more at the 50% mark instead of 25% but it's a bit difficult with such a small tank). I also went ahead and ordered the Nitrofuracin Green powder that you linked to just in case this doesn't work. it's crazy how fast the rot is spreading though, hoping for the best.

 

[Lila]

See if he likes bloodworms to switch up his diet and see if he likes it. It won’t help the fin issues. Just figured I’d throw that out since you said he seemed a little particular. Those bug bites seem addictive for them tho!

haha yes occasionally he will eat the freeze dried ones if i break it up but I think i might try the frozen bloodworms, I'm just not sure if my local fish store sells them; thanks for the suggestion I'll definitely try it! But yes those bug bites are great

 

[af2018]

I hate to put this name out there bc I avoid this place unless I absolutely have to go there but petsmart does sell the frozen ones. They’re pretty pricey too. The other thing I like more about the freeze dried is they float. The frozen ones sink pretty fast