First time setup - Lets try not to kill these fishes!

[The Editor]

Hi all,

I'm a new member just joined for some advice and opinions (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f59/hello-138682.html#post1199154), and just thought I would post my current plan of action up here for you fine people to inspect..

Currently I have:

-30L (6.1 Gal) Clearseal tank (18x10x10 inches)
-A 100ml bottle of Tetra Goldfish Aquasafe
-A small pot of Tetra Goldfish
-Fluval U1 underwater Filter
-An 8kg bag of premium aquarium gravel
-Two plastic plants
-and a diver who will produce bubbles from his head!

I've had a look at the stickied threads (common newbie mistakes, nitrogen cycle, etc...), and have thus far come up with he following plan.

Tomorrow I'll give the gravel a good wash then layer up the bottom of the tank, fill with water, add the required amount of Aquasafe, arrange the ornaments etc, start up the filter... wait approx 2 weeks.. and this is where I come unstuck.

However I do have some questions which could affect the order in which I do things, if at all.

1) I want a nice planted tank with live plants (free food, more oxygen, can help reduce nitrogen in water), however currently posses none. Is it possible to plant these in after filling with water? Or is it advisable to get this sorted before water? Also is it necessary to have a separate substrate under the gravel to root the plants?

2) Fish - I'm not sure what fish I would like, and would like the home I can provide for them. I'd rather not have to buy a heater for the tank, so will be looking for fish that can do well in cooler water. Also will I be able to use the Tetra Goldfish Aquasafe for all fish or should I go and get a different water conditioner?

3) I don't have any test kits for the water quality. Does this matter at this stage of the game? Or can I just set everything up as instructed and assume things are going well until I get a kit? If so what sort of kit (dip sticks, liquids, powders?) is best?

4) Finally what have I forgotten?

Thanks everybody!

EDIT:

Just looked up the water quality data for my area and is as follows:


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[mommytron]

1) you can add plants any time. substrate depends on what kind of plants you want to keep. some deep rooting plants should probably have sand for substrate, most low-light plants should be fine with gravel (like anubias and java fern that you will want to attach to a rock or drift wood anyway)

2) without buying a heater, you will not be able to keep tropical fish. you're looking at goldfish and minnows. since your tank is too small for goldfish, you're pretty much limited to minnows (white cloud minnows are cool) and i believe shrimp and snails would be ok in cold water as well. i'm not familiar with that water conditioner, but i'm guessing it should only be used with goldfish. pretty much anyone on this forum will recommend you buy a bottle of Prime (myself included) for it's effectiveness and value (is super concentrated so will last much longer than any other conditioner)

3) a liquid test kit is pretty much crucial in the beginning stages of setting up an aquarium (not sure about powders, but strips are notoriously inaccurate). recommended around this site is the API Freshwater Master Test kit, which can be found for ~$30 ($20 here in the states). you will need to be testing for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate for about a month and a half while your tank cycles, and every couple of weeks or if something is off after that.

4) before you let your tank just sit there full of water for 2 weeks, pick up some pure ammonia and dose the water up to 4ppm. there--you just started your fishless cycle should take 5 or 6 weeks, unless you add some seeded material from an established tank.

 

[The Editor]

Pure ammonia you say? Is this likely to be stocked in my local aquatics centre or am I going to have to look a little harder for this?

Also, will the necessary microbes inhabit the substrate and filter of their own accord? Or can I purchase a starter colony to kick start the cycle?

Unfortunately after adding the water quality info I managed to lose this thread and was directed away from it every time I tried to get back... Hence started another thread

So sorry for the double post, and I hope a mod can sort my mess out

However in my second rendition of this thread I mentioned that I'm entirely persuadable on almost all things, conceding my own naivety in this sub-aqua world!

 

[mommytron]

you can find pure ammonia at a hardware store. just make sure it has no scents, dyes, or surfactants. generally, if you shake the bottle and there are no bubbles, you're good to go.

the bacteria will grow on it's own as long as it has an ammonia source (pure ammonia, raw shrimp from supermarket, fish food, fish)<--listed in order from easiest/cleanest to most difficult. there is no need for a starter colony, but a few users on here will recommend some that have worked for them. (they pretty much just speed up your cycle, they won't replace it)

 

[jsoong]

Editor - I deleted your other (duplicate) thread. A new member posting pics or links in a thread needs to have the posts approved by a mod or it will not be seen. So no .. your original posts did not disappear, they are simply sitting in moderation queue.

<And once you have a certain number of posts and a proven track record (of not being a spammer) you no longer have to wait for the moderators when posting pics.>

BTW - Welcome to AA.

 

[BigJim]

+1 for mommytron.

1. Lighting will be the limiting factor with plants. What kind of light are you going to use? If it's anything smaller than a 10W fluorescent, even anubias and java fern will struggle to grow.

2. TetraAqua AquaSafe Water Conditioner for Goldfish at PETCO For what it's worth, Petco says you can use the dechlorinator with all fish. From what I've found, the goldfish version just adds something for the slime coat. I'm just glad to see you're not trying to put goldfish in your tank.

Look for white cloud mountain minnows. They stay small enough for your tank.

3. mommytron is right. The test kit is most important during the cycle. I test my tanks maybe once a month if there are no problems and they're established, but I test daily during the cycle and weekly for a while after that. Skip the strips and get the API kit. It's worth it.

4. Read up on fishless cycling. It's the best way to go.

 

[jsoong]

Before you consider plants, you will need to know what light you have in the tank. Most stock lights are too dim to properly support plants & they end up dying.

Do head over to the plant forum & read the stickies on getting started with plants to see how deep you want to get into this. <Plants are much more difficult than fish IME ... but then I don't have a green thumb >

 

[The Editor]

Ah thanks jsoong, I'll be a little more patient next time...

At the moment there is no light anywhere, So that will need to be purchased! Anyone got ideas about fluorescent vs LED?

Ok so I'll give the Aquasafe I have a go... So long as I monitor the levels and it all checks out after a few weeks then its all much of muchness right?

Yea the condition and food came included in with the tank... Which I thought as odd as I had always thought goldfish belonged in ponds

Ok white cloud minnows are the best option unheated?

So hypothetically if I buy a heater what are my options then?

 

[mommytron]

if you were to buy a heater, you could have a betta, or a trio of sparkling gouramis, a pair of killifish, a dwarf puffer, or a few male guppies (you would want all males to prevent them from reproducing, otherwise your tank would be overstocked in a couple of months) i'm sure there are other options but that's what i can think of at the moment

 

[The Editor]

Good morning all!

Ok I'll have a good look at heaters later on today... I like the selection

Is there a rule I can follow for length of fish I can have in the tank? I've seen a few rules relating volume to length etc but people seem to disagree all over the place..... Could Dwarf Cichlids live happily in my tank? and how sociable are these Dwarf puffers you speak of?

I'm excited to get going! Finding it hard not to just jump straight into it all, but having read about more failures than successes when jumping in too soon I think I'll wait for the moment...

Another quick Q if I may: What's the deal with using ornaments not specifically designed for aquarium use?

I've got an Aphrodite statuette I reckon would look pretty cool in a "sunken civilization" way.. But I don't know what its made from (some sort of plastic or set resin by the looks) or what it's painted/coloured with... Can I just sit her in a jar of water or something similar and watch for colour run etc....

 

[BigJim]

There's really no good rule of thumb for stocking by length.

Good call on looking at heaters. It really opens up your fish selection.

Your tank has pretty good dimensions for being so small. You could probably get away with some shell dweller cichlids.

Dwarf puffers aren't very sociable. They like to tear up most other fish. You could put a few in your tank with some otos though.

Unfortunately it takes some time to set up an aquarium the right way. It can be maddening, but it's worth it in the end.

You've asked a tricky question here. Some non-aquarium decorations work, others don't. If the statuette is plastic, you've got a good chance of being able to use it. As you suggested, put it in a jar of aquarium water and keep an eye on it. Measure the pH and look for any leaching.

 

[The Editor]

In which case I'll ask ask and ask again until I'm happy I know what I want!

I won't be getting to my local aquatics centre until next week some time, stuck in the middle of exam period currently... But I'll do some online browsing before I go so I have an idea of what to look for... Any suggestions?

Ah.. Well I'd rather avoid watching them turn my stock into sushi..

Yea I quickly got that impression as soon as I started the research... However being a stickler for details, and a bit of a perfectionist I reckon I'll get a kick out of successfully (hopefully) keeping a few fish next to me! I've even got an Excel spreadsheet set up to record bi-daily water chemistry readings while the tank cycles nerd much?!?!?

Ok then I guess I'll leave her out until I have a fully cycled tank to draw water from...

Also has anyone got any preferences between LED and fluorescent tube lighting and what sort of power/colour temp would I want to keep a few previously mentioned plants happy?

 

[BigJim]

Ask away. If you've got a question, chances are someone else here does too.

Marineland and Fluval get pretty good reviews here. Hydor isn't bad either. Look for 50W-100W.

Don't stress too much about all the minute details. Remember that you're trying to mimic nature and nothing in nature remains constant, so you'll have to be flexible and go with the flow on somethings. However, water quality is not one of them, so kudos for the attention to detail there.

Just add some dechlorinator to the jar of tap water before you dunk the statuette. The dechlorinator may even be overkill.

Aim for 1.5-2 Watts per gallon of 6500K fluorescent lighting to start. That'll let you pick from a better selection of plants, but keep you out of the high-tech range. LEDs are the future, but LED fixtures are expensive right now. If you're the DIY type, you could try a few high-power LEDs. I've seen good results on planted tanks with LEDs. Look at Ziggy's Planted Tank thread.

 

[The Editor]

Excellent, it's always nice to find a helpful population of forumites rather than the drive by flamers that inhabit a lot of online forums...

Who knows if I sit here and plan/think about things enough they may just happen! Or not....

Ok I'll give that a go.. I've got no test kit atm though... You reckon its worth starting now? I could get an empty jar to use as a control to gauge the statue against...

Ok thanks.. 10-12W @6500k it is then! I'm a big DIY fan so I may well look into some custom array with LEDs... You can pick up the components fairly cheaply on eBay by the looks

 

[BigJim]

It would be best to get a baseline on the water before soaking the statue. That way you can see any changes.

Look for high-power LEDs, not the cheap little ones. I've got some Cree XR-Es I'm starting to work with. They're expensive (~$5 a piece), but I've seen people get good results with them.

 

[The Editor]

Ok I'll do that then...

They seem pretty good, I've been looking at 3-5W arrays.... Could mount a few of them in the hood with some sort of heat insulation and I'm good to go! From the looks of it the postage will be the biggest expense for me.. there don't seem to be any retailers of said LED arrays in the UK..

 

[mommytron]

if you do decide to fix up some DIY LED lighting, please feel free to share a build thread about it. i (and others on here i'm sure) love to see that kind of stuff. (and maybe my husband will get inspired to build some for me )

 

[jsoong]

I have been following the development of LED's on & off for my own interest. Philips & Osram are said have high powered LED's coming down the pipe this year. These might be suitable and be easier to find in EU. <Considering that Philips is in the EU.>

I came across this:
Introducing LUXEON Rebel ES | Philips Lumileds Lighting Company
The almost 6000K rating would (on paper) be ideal for a plant light. The super-bright white LED's are really new (I found a press announcement in Jan 2011), so I have no idea if they are available for consumers.

Note that I am just dabbling and looking at the new LED's. I don't know how well any of those LED's will work in real life! I am waiting for some early adopters to play around & iron out the kinks before jumping in .... If you decided to put something together, do post your experience. We can all benefit form it.

 

[The Editor]

Hey again all!

Well I've been and picked up an API Freshwater Master test kit and a bottle of 9.5% w/w ammonia solution.. Gonna wash everything down this evening, fill her up and get the fishless cycle under way!

Didn't get a heater today but I'll have a while to get that bought while the tank sorts itself out..

After having a look around at various build logs for LED lighting I've decided to hold off on that approach for the moment.. I think I'd be better off concentrating on stocking the tank and keeping the residents happy for the moment.

I had originally settled on Dwarf Puffers, but after talking to the shop keeper today who told me how her puffers were really boring, really messy, and just killed each other, I'm not so sure...

I did however see looooaaads of awesome fish in the store and wanted to bring them all home!

 

[Pvtdgrif]

Hi there, as I am also new to the hobby I've spent some time reading lots of threads on freshwater setup. Hopefully some forum regulars can validate this, but I've read that the cycle procedure works much better at high tropical temperatures.