first timer w/ a 55

[Da Squid]

Lousey monkies always trying to show me up.... well mark my words they wont get the better of me this time!
Ok ok, when I get a rainy weekend maybe I'll guzzle some cola and set something up. Priority one is still going to be mastering the elusive nitrogen cycle though.

 

[Sicklid]

I had a thing about using tonic water bottles, the ones that had quinine in them... They were clear, and I thought the quinine had something to do with me being successful in getting longer-lasting brews...

Anyway, what I stress to the beginner most is STERILIZATION. What I would do is add my sugar to boiled water in the pot it was boiled in.... The reasons being 1) it is pretty much bacteria free water, 2) The sugar dissolves really fast and completely, and 3) It is now sterilized sugar as well... just don't add boiling hot water to your bottles without some cold water in there first, or your bottles will melt... Don't ask this monkey how he knows that.

Then, I would rinse my bottles, stoppers, funnels, spoons, ANYTHING that comes in contact with the brew with rubbing alcohol and let it evaporate off... Remember, it is not too critical, because the by product of yeast is alcohol, so it's not imperative that you let the stuff completely dry.

Do that, keep everything sterilized, and you will get batches of home-brewed c02 that go on for 3 weeks, sometimes more...

AND don't add more sugar than you need, go LIGHT on the mix... Too much sugar makes it peak too soon and burn out faster.

 

[Da Squid]

Well, Its been a month and half with no nitrites so I'm thinking the fishless cycle isn't working for me. I suspect it has something to do with my water being so acidic, but I'm not sure. I've decided to do some big WC's to clean it up, will recondition with Prime, and then adding one or two black mollies to start things out(and also maybe nibble on the huge amount of thread algae i have growing on the plants) With all the plants in there growing in a 55g, two fish shouldnt create a big ammonia problem right? I'll be testing and WCing frequently.

All the plants are showing good growth, though I'm worried that the java ferns leaves are spotty with holes in them, and the tall leafy plants in the back have leaves melt off occasionally. Lighting is roughly 1.75 wpg I recon and I'm not using co2 Yet. I do have bottles of Excel and Flourish but I havent used them yet as i'm not sure it would help.

 

[brutus]

Have you checked nitrates ? With no fish in there and water changes it might be down to zero.IF you plant heavy right from the start you can add fish a few at a time .

 

[FishEggs]

with plants in the tank you are doing what's called a silent cycle and you might not see nitrites or nitrates. also the addition of the diy co2 would probably help with the hair algae. if you don't want to go through the trouble of diy co2 you can start dosing the excel.

 

[Da Squid]

Silent cycle would be awsome but I have had around 2 to 4 ppm of ammonia in the tank for the whole month and a half and it's never really dropped. . Recently I got desperate and bought a bottle of Safestart to try that. I ran all the tests. Ammonia was the same 4ish, nitrites were zero and nitrates were 5. I'm not sure if the Safestart made them 5, or 5 was from my tap water.

I would like to mess around with DIY co2, but my first goal is to get a few fish in the tank. My plan was amazon type fish. Maybe a school of neons, and some fun bottom dwellers. Anything small and peaceful that might be more at home with a 6 or below PH. Any suggestions after the mollies? I know I'll have to start slow since I'm not cycled. Patience I have, just no experience!

 

[Sicklid]

Yeah... I highly recommend the adding of a couple of mollies. You have some good bacteria in there, trust me. You just have to tap into it, and the addition of that amount of fish in a volume like that will be fine.

 

[Da Squid]

Hmm... just did one last testing before doing the 50% water change and its actually showing my ammonia dropped a tiny bit and my nitrates went from 5 to 10. Nitrites are still 0. Could that suggest something is happening down there or should I still just do a big waterchange? If there were a bit of bacteria in there, adding the tap water and then the prime would probably kill it. Maybe I should give it another day or so just in case?

 

[brutus]

I've never had much luck with neons but i think that cardinal tetras look better and are a easier to keep.

 

[Da Squid]

Thanks Brutus, maybe I'll check them out instead. Really any schooling fish with a bit of color would be fine.

 

[Sicklid]

If you can find Pristella Tetras, they are a nice yellow... Harlequin Rasporas, and Glo lights are nice... A school of blue danios is cool too... I still think you are on track with the mollies though, as they will definitely nibble on the algae...

 

[Da Squid]

Oh yeah, two mollies for sure. And if I dont kill them in a week or two then maybe an SAE next. Any thoughts on my odd water readings? Ammonia is slowly dropping and Nitrates seem to go up a tad. Maybe my plants only eat the nitrites? I hate to do a WC now if all that waiting finally paid off.

 

[Sicklid]

No, I don't actually... I honestly believe that you introduced beneficial bacteria into the tank just by adding plants from another tank, even if it is just trace amounts. Someone else will surely differ, but I think the addition of those two mollies will help things enormously...

 

[FishEggs]

i would hold off on the mollies. if you have no fish in the tank don't do water changes and cut the light time back a bit.

 

[Da Squid]

Ah, read your post a bit too late. Just did a 50% chance and added Prime to lower the ammonia as much as possible for fish. I can see lowering the light would possibly slow down the algae, but why hold off on the WC?

 

[FishEggs]

with no fish in the tank there isnt a need to do a wc to lower the ammonia. i think it actually prolongs the cycle when you do water changes. also the higher the ammonia the higher the bio load the more fish you can start with after the cycle completes.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

DS, I just read through this thread and saw the 'silent cycle' part, I've never heard it called that before but when I started my tank (seeded w/dirty water from a sponge filter) I never saw Nitrites over 0.25 ppm and that was only for a day, plants will really suck up the Nitrites and Nitrates also. Mine never get above 15ppm and I have 51 fish in my 55. Also are you using the Carbon or zeolite in your canister? Instead I use Seachem Purigen & 'The Bag' but you really shouldn't need that until the filter is well established.

How acidic is your water? If the water in the tank is at 6.0 or less, I believe that will stall out your cycle completely

 

[Da Squid]

I was hoping the plants were sucking up the nitrites too, but with the ammonia never dropping in all that time, I figured there was no way the tank could be cycling. I'm not running any carbon, just filter floss and some ceramic rings.

The water is definately 6 PH or lower which is my theory as to why things aren't working as well. I posted a question about this on a different thread at some point and was told the PH wouldn't affect cycling but it didn't sound right. I'm not in a rush to add a ton of fish, but after all this time I would like to see at least a few things swimming around in there. I think i'm up to the task of maintaining 3 or 4 small fish in the 55 for a bit. Though, should I be trying to up the PH for a few months till more bacteria can form?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I found this on another website...

"I think that ammonia does make the water more acidic, if I remember rightly. Certainly the workings of the nitrogen cycle do so and the bogwood could be having this affect too.

I'm going to guess that the KH of your water is very low and this means you are going to get variations in PH easily. Having a KH over 4 degrees will keep your PH steadier.

it is important not to let your PH drop too much during a cycle, as if the PH goes too low (around 6, I think, not exactly sure), the bacteria will stop functioning and eventually die. I'd say you need to make sure the PH stays over 6.5 at all times during the cycle and of course for the fish's sakes it needs to be stable after that.

For the time being, add a pinch of bicarb soda (baking soda, like you'd use in cooking) to the water, enough to increase the PH gradually to about 7. When you can, I suggest you buy a KH/GH test kit, as if your water is very soft it will be important to monitor these to make sure they don't get too low.

Bicarb soda is a quick, easy and above all cheap way to increase the PH of your tank. The main thing is that if you have fish in there you mustn't raise it by more than say 0.2 daily. The most important thing for PH is to keep it stable."

Food for thought.

 

[Da Squid]

Did a 50% WC on the 11th. I tested the following day and the ammonia dropped about.5 ppm and raised the PH from 6 or below to 6.4! Unfortunately I just tested it today and the PH is back to 6 or below. Whats odd is the nitrates are still slowly going up. They are at around 15 now even though the ammonia never drops (except for after a WC).
Also a surprise, after the big WC my plants started growing like crazy! I noticed new growth every day, but now they are really shooting to the roof. The thread algae and spotted brown algae are also growing like mad. Cant wait to get some fish and start co2. Doin another WC today to bring the ammonia down low enough to get fish I hope.