fish are still dying

[Rocket Girl]

Subsequent to the posts below...

For all purposes I basically have brand-new everything 20 gal tank, 10 days old. I had one rainbow and one bristlenose pleco in there. I went to the fish store Sat to get more fish. I got 6 Harlequin Rasboras. Figured I should try something new since I had no luck with tetras, livebearers, dwarf gouramis, etc. I didn't want that many originally but they talked me into it saying it would be cheaper.

Anyways I put them in Saturday afternoon. Monday after work 2 were dead. Tonight (Tuesday) I will have one more dead soon. (At this point I've gotten REALLY good at identifying dying fish). My water is okay, as far as ammonia, etc goes.

WHAT IS GOING ON?????????? I feel like the only person in the world who can't have living fish. Is there anybody out there that can tell me what is going on????????

 

[czcz]

Likely stocking too quickly for a cycling 20gal. Since everything is new, take care of existing fish and allow time for growing bacteria colony to take care of their waste before adding more fish. Consider nh3 and no2 spike for pleco and rainbow's bioload probably hasn't come yet. Suggest you also continue to monitor and improve pH stability with aged water before adding to stock. If possible, perhaps return fish and let tank fishless cycle, allowing you to experiment without harming pets.

HTH

 

[whitetiger_CJ]

The tank itself will take up to two months to fully cycle and become set in its balances. The most dramatic changes will occur in the first three weeks. It ias advised not to add fish to the tank until two to three weeks have passed. also, the teras and rasboras are one of the most fragile fish, and do not like changes in their climate or ph levels. also, is the water conditioned? the chemicals in your water may be adding stress on the fish. things like fluoride, chlorine, and certain metals should be removed. there are basic water conditioners that will remove them. what temperature does your tank sit at? the Ideal temp is 78 degrees, or somewhere near that. I wish you luck, and hope that this helped.

~Corey

 

[TomK2]

A ten day old tank with dying fish is New Tank Syndrome until proven otherwise. Ich (white spot parasite disease) often happens in new tanks too. Untreated chloramines from tap water could be trouble too. While you say your tank is OK with ammonia, how are you testing this? The most likely cause is an ammoia spike and a nitrite spike. It would normally take 4 to six weeks to establish a bacteria colony capable of metabolizing the ammonia and nitrite for all but the lightest of stocking. There are many articles on cycling a tank on the web, including the articles section of AA. You can also check out: http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0017.htm

A liquid type test kit is highly recommended!

 

[sonoma2nv]

first thing if your asking for help you need to post your water params and not just say there fine.And you need to test it every other day to make sure when you need to do water changes.Until it gets some good bacteria going then you can do it every week.I have been seeing lately alot of people with the same questions.Keeping a fw tank is alot of work at first if you cycle with fish.Just keep in mind its not add water and fish then your done.even after it cycles you still need to change water once a week.

 

[frog girl]

For emergencies get some anacharis or hornwort. Both of these plants love to eat up ammonia & other nitrogenous wastes. Plus they are floating plants so you don't have to worry about the substrate & they will add oxygen to the water which the fish will like. They are good to have in a tank that is just cycling if you plan to keep fish in there too because they help take the edge off of the ammonia & nitrite peaks.

Also doing partial water changes with either water dechlorinated with a chemical or some that has been sitting out for a few days will get rid of some of the toxic stuff so your fish will be more likely to make it.

Sorry to hear you have lost so many already. HTH

 

[Blucat]

PLecos are the last thing you should put in. I learned it the sad way.

 

[Guest]

plecos rock! but yea sometimes its not your fault that they died, if you want starter fish for a non-fishless cycle you have to choose THE hardiest, i did that and only 1 died and that was a molly she died last saturday i mean for living about 1 month she did pretty good and just an idea for some hardier fish

Corydoras, Mollies, not too sure but maybe Guppies, Bettas, Ghost Shrimp.... and thats all i can think of right now HTH

 

[Blucat]

Sorry... What i meant was, get a pleco, but only add it in after you've added most of your other fish. Don't add it first and waiat until the tank is cycled.

 

[Guest]

^^^^ what that says is completly and blah blah cant think of any big words

RIGHT

 

[frog girl]

Rudy,

I think Blucat just meant that plecos can be sorta sensitive & should not be incorporated until the cycling is done.

 

[FancyGuppyGuy]

what was the fish stores PH and your tanks PH??

how did you acclimate these fish to their new water??

new fish often die because of the change in water conditions.

 

[jgc8fan]

Assuming this was a complete setup you bought then I'll also assume you adjusted the PH, and added the water conditioner that came with the kit.

You should be careful of adding too many fish too early. As soon as you add fish the ammonia levels will rise quickly. The nitrifying bacteria take at least 3 weeks to get a good start in the tank, so saying you don't have an ammonia problem is pretty much impossible as the bacteria aren't established enough to control it in 10 days, and as long as you have fish in there you have ammonia.

Even if you have an ammonia test kit... I haven't used one in several years myself, but IIRC they are not very accurate during the first couple of weeks after setting up a tank. This is due to new water being unstable. It takes a LONG time for water to build up buffers to protect itself from sudden changes. After the tank has been set up for about a year you will notice a difference in the water... Things that used to cloud the water (overfeeding, water changes, etc...) for several days will hardly affect the water or it will recover in a few hours instead of days.

Once the tank cycles you still have to be careful as the bacteria have to multiply to adjust for the increase of ammonia for every fish you add. Just be careful for the first few months and keep a close eye on changes. The thing you have to remember is that you are not simply sticking an animal in a cage... You are creating an enclosed eco system, and even though God could do it in 7 days unless you have that power you'll just have to be patient.

It should get better... The fish that have died will have released plenty of ammonia to get the bacteria started. If any live then don't add more for a couple weeks. If they do all die then do a 1/4 water change and get a couple of the cheapest fish your LFS stocks... Avoid neons as they are difficult to keep alive even in established tanks... Silver tips, Rasboras (which you have), mollies, and guppies are fairly hardy.

 

[Rocket Girl]

My history is I have been trying to keep fish for 2 years unsuccessfully. Sometimes they last 3-4 months, but that's it.

People keep telling me livebearers are inbred. It's only 20 gal and cichlids are too big. Tetras are too sensitive. I'm running out of fish.

I've posted my water parameters many times before but once again ph is 8, kh is 70 mg/dl, past week my ammonia is constant at 0.1ppm and nitrites constant at 0.6 ppm and nitrates zero.

I know my ammonia isn't the problem. It is just not spiking. Therefore, I do not consider this to be a new tank syndrome/cycling problem.

I'm not new to this. I just have a big problem that isn't readily identifiable. It's not the common stuff.

 

[Blucat]

Ok if you can't have livebearers. and you can't have tetras....

What about some cory cats? They are quite cute and active.
Or Zebra Danios?
And when you have finished cycling, maybe some gourami?

 

[jgc8fan]

My history is I have been trying to keep fish for 2 years unsuccessfully. Sometimes they last 3-4 months, but that's it.

People keep telling me livebearers are inbred. It's only 20 gal and cichlids are too big. Tetras are too sensitive. I'm running out of fish.
I'm not new to this. I just have a big problem that isn't readily identifiable. It's not the common stuff.

Get two angelfish... Small ones. No sense in paying for big ones since they grow pretty fast. They are actually pretty hardy, but they are aggressive to smaller fish, so be careful what you try to put in with them. A couple algae eaters to keep the tank clean.

Also... Lower your PH to 7.0... 8.0 is where you would have it for cichlids or a saltwater tank.

Don't do too much to the tank... If you keep the PH balanced and let the bacteria take care of the bio filter then the tank should need little maintenance other than periodic 1/4 water changes. Don't add chemicals or make drastic changes to the water too often... This disrupts the bacteria. Just let it do it's thing, and the fish should be fine.

You also might get your tap water checked if you are using that in your tank. If there are high quantities copper in your water then that could be it... Copper is toxic to fish. Be very careful if you add anything like CopperSafe for ich be sure to follow the directions carefully or you could poison your tank. If there is copper in your tank then you can buy a copper sponge from your LFS that will remove it. If it is in your tap water then use bottled water for your water changes.

That's about all I can think of that would cause the problem barring all that has already been said.

*edit* P.S. If you use bottled water get a bottle of electrolytes from your LFS to add to the water before putting it in your tank.

 

[TankGirl]

Do not put any more fish in this tank until your ammonia and nitrite read zero - dead, flat zero. This IS a cycling issue if you have measurable amounts of these toxic properties.

Do water changes several times a week without doing any gravel vac'ing or filter cleaning, feed sparingly, and you will eventually cycle, though it might take several weeks. Just be patient and it will happen. Be sure your heater is keeping the water warm enough and be sure the filtration is moving enough water, and you'll get there.

Tetras can go in this tank, so can livebearers and pretty much any other kind of fish that does not get large. If you like the rasboras after this is over get a few more of them, get 3-4 cory cats for the bottom, a dwarf gourami, even an angel or two. You could also make this a guppy tank or a swordtail tank or a platy tank. You have lots of options here and none of the troubles you are having are likely related to the fish themselves.

 

[Rocket Girl]

I can't lower my pH. Not without alot of trouble and chemical. I don't think that is a good idea. I just have to work with my pH.

Don't Angels get too big for a 20gal???

Should I be changing my filter media during this time or not? I noticed my sponge is quite dirty from the driftwood. Should the media be changed twice a month or once a month?

 

[TankGirl]

Don't worry about your pH right now.

2 angels can technically reside in a 20gal but if it is a 20-long then it is probably too "short" for them.

You should not be changing your filter media at all until the tank is cycled. Do not overfeed and the filter should not become so horribly clogged that it needs to be cleaned. Why is the driftwood causing so much debris? If it is, then you might consider removing it and getting driftwood that is harder and not so likely to decay and clog things up. Even so, the driftwood you have right now holds bacteria so don't remove it now - don't do anything now - except partial water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite levels low for the sake of the fish, and wait.

I know this is so frustrating, and is the #1 reason you will see fish tanks at yard sales. I am sure you will make it through this and proceed with your plans for the tank, so best of luck!

 

[jgc8fan]

I kept 2 angels in a 10 gal for almost 5 years... Buy them small, and they shouldn't outgrow the tank. My mom has an angel in her 20 that's 3 years old and doing fine.

Since you've been having the problem for so long I'm really wondering about your water, and whether there are toxins in it. As tankgirl said though... There should be no measurable ammonia at all once the bio filter gets going. By your readings it looks like your tank is cycling correctly... The the ammonia is going down, and the nitrites are rising. Soon they will both be gone, and you will start getting a nitrate reading.

Why do you not want to change the ph??? I agree that while you have new fish in the tank I wouldn't want to shock them anymore, but I would change it after the tank has cycled, and before adding more fish. I can almost guarantee that your lfs tanks have a 7.0 ph, so you might be subjecting the new arrivals to ph shock... Fish are not supposed to be subjected to .5 ph difference over a 24hr period. Whenever you do decide to change the ph use either the tablets from Tetra or Proper PH 7.0... Much easier than fooling around with ph up/ph down chemicals (that don't seem to work half the time anyway). If you don't do this at some point then you will have to be extremely careful adding new fish to acclimate them to your ph before adding them to the tank.

Don't mess with the filter media until you get a nitrite reading of zero. When you do change the media just change the carbon. The sponge is your bio filter, and should not be changed or you may start the cycle all over again. Once the cycle is done then you can rinse the sponge (use a little water from the tank to do this). When you do a partial water change is a good time for this since you will have some tank water already removed. Rinse it gently, and no squeezing or wringing out.