Fish dead after 50% water change

[bradydono]

I had 4 platys in my 29gallon tank.

I did a 50% water change before going to bed, I used a gravel vaccum, and then I changed the water with water out of my faucet. I treated the water with petco water conditioner., API Stress Zyme+, Top Fin Bacteria Supplement, and a little API Accu-clear. The fish instantly started to not move near as much as normal, then I went to bed and all the fish were dead.

My tank has been up and running for a month and a half with fish in it.

 

[trennamw]

So sorry ...

That was a lot to add to the water ... But none seem like things that would harm (at worst they're ineffective or unnecessary, and they overlap). I could be wrong.

Tell us more ... Was the tank cycled, why did you add all those things, did you normally use them, when was the last water change, what was the water change method, temp ...


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[4127john]

Have you tried testing the water? Temperature shock can also be a factor but that's a small chance. Also can be a possibility of an overdose of accuclear or water conditioner.


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[bradydono]

reply, %0% water change left fish dead.

My Tank was 80degrees before and 79degrees after the change, last change was 1.5 weeks ago, I do not have a reason for using all of those chemicals. The way i change the water is i gravel vaccum the water out usually a 25% water change but this time i decided to a do a 50% change, To fill it i Carry Buckets of water from my tub and dump the water in the tank slowly, I do this till my tank is full and then add the water conditioner and all the other products. I use api tropical fish food.

 

[FishayFishay]

I don't know how long it took you to put the water conditioner in so this is tricky to say but maybe all that chlorine in the tap water shocked them or hurt them in some way. Especially 50%. I would've just dosed after 25% each. I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[Toad]

I always add the conditioner to the bucket before pouring in the tank, but I've heard people with pythons add it after so... Maybe something was funky with your tap water, sometimes the treatment plants overdo stuff and that's messed with people's tanks.

 

[FishayFishay]

I always add the conditioner to the bucket before pouring in the tank, but I've heard people with pythons add it after so... Maybe something was funky with your tap water, sometimes the treatment plants overdo stuff and that's messed with people's tanks.

Yeah that makes more sense too, maybe you should call and ask if they've done anything different to the water.

 

[jarrod0987]

Sorry for your loss. Sometimes big eater changers kill fish. Depends on how much different the new water is from the old water. Some species are more sensitive too.

 

[Rivers2k]

I would blame the chemical cocktail you added to the water. The only hting I ever use is prime. I used the API stress coat when nobody had prime in stock but I would never add 3 at once. You don't need the beneficial bacteria that should already be established in your tank. API accuclear gimmick that's not needed your filter will clear your water or you need to change your filter media.

 

[Coyne]

I do 50% (or more) pwcs every week on three aquariums. I fill directly from the tap; adding in enough Prime to treat the volume of the tank (not just what I'm replacing). I have cories (pigmy and panda), plecs, a variety of tetras, along with shrimp and snails. I do not lose fish after every water change, so I doubt it's a direct result of how much water you removed or how you added the new water.

Did you happen to check your nitrate level before the water change? If they were pretty high to begin with, then a sudden reduction can actually put stress on the fish... Though I would suspect there was already another health problem if it killed them.

As nitrates slowly increase, fish slowly acclimate to the new levels. That's not to say it's a healthy situation, but they deal with it. If you've only been doing 25% pwcs 2-3 times a month, then it's possible that nitrates have been slowly creeping higher and higher depending on stocking and feeding habits.

As an example: my nitrates are typically around 40ppm before I do a pwc, so a change of 50% puts be around 20ppm afterwards. A difference of 20ppm isn't that much.
However, let's say I let the nitrates rise to 200ppm before I did a 50% pwc. A sudden difference of 100ppm can mess with the fish while it adapts to the new chemistry.

Hope this helps some.


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[Coursair]

My Tank was 80degrees before and 79degrees after the change, last change was 1.5 weeks ago, I do not have a reason for using all of those chemicals. The way i change the water is i gravel vaccum the water out usually a 25% water change but this time i decided to a do a 50% change, To fill it i Carry Buckets of water from my tub and dump the water in the tank slowly, I do this till my tank is full and then add the water conditioner and all the other products. I use api tropical fish food.

The main thing I see is that you added Chlorinated water to your tank, then added conditioner.

Never let Chlorine or Chloramines touch your fish.

I add my conditioner to my buckets or I add enough for entire tank volume to my tank, then add new water.

Yes, that is quite a cocktail you are adding to your water.

Have you been testing your tank water ?

What were your results before and after water change ?

Normally, esp during Cycling, I change water weekly. Your tank had only been up 6 weeks ? You changed 50% 10 days after your last 25% PWC ?

Just trying to establish the facts and a timeline.

Very sorry you lost fish.
Test your water. Please post results.

Never let untreated water touch your fish, not even for a moment.
Live and learn...we've all made mistakes.


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[irdajoh]

My Tank was 80degrees before and 79degrees after the change, last change was 1.5 weeks ago, I do not have a reason for using all of those chemicals. The way i change the water is i gravel vaccum the water out usually a 25% water change but this time i decided to a do a 50% change, To fill it i Carry Buckets of water from my tub and dump the water in the tank slowly, I do this till my tank is full and then add the water conditioner and all the other products. I use api tropical fish food.

Have you looked into getting a 25+foot syphon, that gets rid of any heavy buckets and let's you empty and fill a tank in about an hour. All those extra chemical I would stop using. Less is more sometimes and with fish, messing around alot ISN'T GOOD ! Plus with the syphon you can just add conditioners before the water even starts to fill the tank.

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[FishayFishay]

Have you looked into getting a 25+foot syphon, that gets rid of any heavy buckets and let's you empty and fill a tank in about an hour. All those extra chemical I would stop using. Less is more sometimes and with fish, messing around alot ISN'T GOOD ! Plus with the syphon you can just add conditioners before the water even starts to fill the tank.

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I've heard of people using the conditioner after they fill the tank, are you all saying you add it before? Some people argue that they wouldn't add it before because technically you're not treating the new water as it comes in and it's almost pointless. What's your response to that?

 

[sinibotia]

I've heard of people using the conditioner after they fill the tank, are you all saying you add it before? Some people argue that they wouldn't add it before because technically you're not treating the new water as it comes in and it's almost pointless. What's your response to that?

The water conditioner chemically reacts with chlorine/chloramines so adding it to already-treated water doesn't use it up. It also reacts in a set ratio, like all chemical reactions, so if you add enough to treat the whole tank then even if it does somehow react with the water in your tank there'll still be enough conditioner to treat the new water. And the water flow from the hose should circulate the tank enough that the chlorinated water quickly comes into contact with the active component of the conditioner and thus is treated.

 

[FishayFishay]

The water conditioner chemically reacts with chlorine/chloramines so adding it to already-treated water doesn't use it up. It also reacts in a set ratio, like all chemical reactions, so if you add enough to treat the whole tank then even if it does somehow react with the water in your tank there'll still be enough conditioner to treat the new water. And the water flow from the hose should circulate the tank enough that the chlorinated water quickly comes into contact with the active component of the conditioner and thus is treated.

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing up for me, I'm thinking of buying a python soon lol.

 

[jarrod0987]

because this issue keeps coming back to the top of the forum I wanted to take a minute to explain to happens during a big water change gone bad. Inside a fresh water fishes body is a lot of water. Just like in a person. This water is slightly more "salty" then the fresh water it lives in. It has electrolytes such as Potassium, Sodium,Calcium, Magnesium etc. Because the fish lives in water with a lower concentration of these minerals , the minerals want to adsorb out of the fishes cells (in the gills for example) and into the water. This would balance the concentration out. Nature loves balance. However, the fishes body doesn't work right if that happens. So it expends energy and it's body has mechanisms to regulate it's self to keep the minerals in. This is known as osmotic regulation. All fish do it. It works a tad different in salt water. This regulation takes time. If you were to put a fish into water that was very different in dissolved solids (could be minerals or anything else such as nitrates) the fish cannot adjust fast enough. Cell walls can burst in the gills and the fish dies. Sometimes this takes up to a day for the fish to die. It is known as osmotic shock.

Typically, in an aquarium that has been neglected...carbonates decline over time and nitrates accumulate. Small and often water changes help fix this. However. the levels still very over time due to accumulation. It's math, just trust me. So if you have a small water change with water that is similar to your aquarium water, not an issue. Suppose you did a massive water change with water that was very different....Dead fish. This is a fundamental underlying concept that most of us have seen but that the water change police just cannot grasp. I think all of us, when new, had a toxic water issue..went to forums and got told to change a high % of water . Everything seemed fine but in the morning....everything is dead. A better way would have been to use an ammonia blocker and do many small changes over the next 48 hours. It is obvious the water change killed everything.....but the water change police just cannot accept this. There mind cannot even see this as a possibility...it MUST be something else. To them, water changes CANNOT be bad. EVER. It is a extreme belief that is holding back the hobby. Some of us have realized WC can be good or bad depending on the issue and how you proceed carefully and monitor the important chemistry.

Salt water people know doing big water changes = death to corals. They know why too

I would like it if you would join me on my journey to learn all there is to learn about aquariums. I value your friendship. I promise to keep it interesting and never to advise you to do anything I think might be unreasonably risky to your fish. Except in cases where they will almost certainly die if action is not taken etc. it is unlikely that small water changes will cause a problem but you need to do more of them to get any effect.

Many will flame this post. I don't care. The people who experience massive death after a big change will do there homework and see that I am right.

 

[Fishperson]

Does your tank have adequate surface movement? Cold water contains a lot of dissolved gasses, and I've heard that after a large water change sometimes CO2 levels can rise causing fish to die.

 

[sinibotia]

because this issue keeps coming back to the top of the forum I wanted to take a minute to explain to happens during a big water change gone bad. Inside a fresh water fishes body is a lot of water. Just like in a person. This water is slightly more "salty" then the fresh water it lives in. It has electrolytes such as Potassium, Sodium,Calcium, Magnesium etc. Because the fish lives in water with a lower concentration of these minerals , the minerals want to adsorb out of the fishes cells (in the gills for example) and into the water. This would balance the concentration out. Nature loves balance. However, the fishes body doesn't work right if that happens. So it expends energy and it's body has mechanisms to regulate it's self to keep the minerals in. This is known as osmotic regulation. All fish do it. It works a tad different in salt water. This regulation takes time. If you were to put a fish into water that was very different in dissolved solids (could be minerals or anything else such as nitrates) the fish cannot adjust fast enough. Cell walls can burst in the gills and the fish dies. Sometimes this takes up to a day for the fish to die. It is known as osmotic shock.

Typically, in an aquarium that has been neglected...carbonates decline over time and nitrates accumulate. Small and often water changes help fix this. However. the levels still very over time due to accumulation. It's math, just trust me. So if you have a small water change with water that is similar to your aquarium water, not an issue. Suppose you did a massive water change with water that was very different....Dead fish. This is a fundamental underlying concept that most of us have seen but that the water change police just cannot grasp. I think all of us, when new, had a toxic water issue..went to forums and got told to change a high % of water . Everything seemed fine but in the morning....everything is dead. A better way would have been to use an ammonia blocker and do many small changes over the next 48 hours. It is obvious the water change killed everything.....but the water change police just cannot accept this. There mind cannot even see this as a possibility...it MUST be something else. To them, water changes CANNOT be bad. EVER. It is a extreme belief that is holding back the hobby. Some of us have realized WC can be good or bad depending on the issue and how you proceed carefully and monitor the important chemistry.

Salt water people know doing big water changes = death to corals. They know why too

I would like it if you would join me on my journey to learn all there is to learn about aquariums. I value your friendship. I promise to keep it interesting and never to advise you to do anything I think might be unreasonably risky to your fish. Except in cases where they will almost certainly die if action is not taken etc. it is unlikely that small water changes will cause a problem but you need to do more of them to get any effect.

Many will flame this post. I don't care. The people who experience massive death after a big change will do there homework and see that I am right.

Your science is right, except that freshwater fish live in a much more dynamic environment than saltwater fish as far as water chemistry is concerned and thus have a much higher tolerance for changes in water chemistry. A big rain can have a sudden and significant impact on water chemistry in a freshwater habitat, and freshwater fish are evolved to put up with that. And it's not very likely that a tank set up for 6 weeks, with a 25% change a week and a half ago, has too-high nitrate and too-low carbonate. If it does, then the KH in OP's tap water must be absurdly low to begin with, in which case that would be the issue, not the water change. I'm 99% sure this wasn't osmotic shock, at least not due to too big of a water change.

I agree that water changes aren't always the answer or the end-all-be-all, but I'm also nearly certain that it wasn't a forseeable problem here.

 

[jarrod0987]

Your science is right, except that freshwater fish live in a much more dynamic environment than saltwater fish as far as water chemistry is concerned and thus have a much higher tolerance for changes in water chemistry. A big rain can have a sudden and significant impact on water chemistry in a freshwater habitat, and freshwater fish are evolved to put up with that. And it's not very likely that a tank set up for 6 weeks, with a 25% change a week and a half ago, has too-high nitrate and too-low carbonate. If it does, then the KH in OP's tap water must be absurdly low to begin with, in which case that would be the issue, not the water change. I'm 99% sure this wasn't osmotic shock, at least not due to too big of a water change.

I agree that water changes aren't always the answer or the end-all-be-all, but I'm also nearly certain that it wasn't a foreseeable problem here.

I agree with almost everything you said here. I would say that rain water into a moving river or lake is a slow change over perhaps an hour and we are talking inches of rain into feet of water usually. However, it is a very fair point. I have seen multiple posts from people over the years saying they did a 50% or more and all the fish died within 24 hours. This is classic osmotic shock. it is interesting that the tank is so young, but have seen it happen to many new keepers. We don't have a clear picture of what happened chemically but it seems obvious me and the OP what caused the problem. Hence the name of the thread

 

[gemach7]

Do you have a ph, nitrate, and ammonia reading from before and after the water change? Also do you always use this Chem cocktail with your water changes? It is possible that they reacted together to form unwanted compounds. Also do you always do a gravel vac each water change? It is possible to stir up the gravel too much on a system that doesn't get one very often and release dangerous quantities of waste chemicals.


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