Fish in Cycle again -)

[Deacon22]

OK, sorry for the 300th Post on Fish in Cycle but just wanted to see if I am on track here. Every since being duped into "just running the filter for 24 hours" I have been reading this forum nonstop for knowledge.

Here's where I am at:

Someone bought my 7 year old a 20 gallon all in one Top fin tank from Petsmart. After receiving very little advice I came back the next day and bought 2 red wag plattys 2 mickey mouse plattys 2 ADF and one dalmatian molly on advice from the salesperson. I have well water and the temp has been set at 78* since the first day.

Two days later the dalmatian died. I went to Petsmart and they said it was new tank syndrome and they said my water levels were fine. At this point I started researching and found out basically the tank is no longer my 7 year olds, it is mine.

Anyway, the next morning the frog and a MM platty died and I went to Petsmart and got a syphon and after reading about cycling I started with the water changes.

After reading some more, I went out and bought a AC 50 (right now have the sponge the carbon and the bio) running with the Top Fin 20 carb cart) I plan on adding a second sponge to the AC and getting rid of the carbon as some suggested on this site.

I have been doing 25% water changes every day since the MM died.

I initially purchased Test strips for $24. After reading about the liquid testing I went on Amazon and bought API Freshwater MAster for $19 (32 at Petsmart) The API arrives tomorrow so I am using the strips for now.

The levels have been 0's across the board since the first 5 days. Saturday, a Red platty died when I came home from work. I tested the water and the ammonia was between stress and danger ( I am color weak so I rely on the wife testing). I did a 50% water change, checked the strips in an hour and we were at .5

Came home today and ammonia is at .5. Did a 25% water change. The fish are swimming around soooo fast. I haven't seen them swim like this. IS this a good thing? They seem to be happy, except the frog. I read the ADF's like to be with other ADF's. I don't want to add any fish unnecessarily until the tank is safe. Should I get another frog to make him happy?

I still have 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates. Is this normal? If so, when can I see a spike in these?

Anything else I should be doing?

Thanks so much, I really wish I went on this site before going to Petsmart and getting the fish, but after reading here for a week, it seems like a lot of posters have the same problem. The pet stores should be a little more responsible and not just try to sell a fish. I mean, these fish are $1.00. How much can they be making?

Thanks again.

 

[jlk]

Hi! I think everyone has duped by the lfs at one point in time or another (unless they are lucky and have a great one!). Ok, I am glad your doing your research and your on the right path so far with frequent water changes & getting a decent test kit.

You mentioned you have well water- are you using a water conditioner as well? Even though a water condit with well water isnt an absolute must, its still suggested for the sake of detoxing heavy metals & helping with slimecoat. While your fish-in cycling, it will be of a tremendous help. Prime is highly recommended. It will help detox ammonia, nitrite & nitrate as well as heavy metals when used regularly with your frequent water changes and limit the stress from toxins on your fish. The rapid swimming you are seeing with the increase in ammonia is a classic symptom of toxin exposure. Stay on top of your water changes to keep toxins as low as possible.

I would not add anything else until your tank is fully cycled then stock slowly & gradually giving your bacteria a chance to adjust to the increase in bioload. Your ADF will be fine in the interim by himself.

To help speed up the cycle process, adding some cycled media is the fastest, most reliable way to go but dont expect Petsmart to help you with this. Do you know anyone with a healthy cycled tank or pond? If not, Angelsplus is another option. They sell live, active (cycled) filters. Heres their link along with the fishin cycle link. Hang in there & keep asking questions!!!

Aquarium Sponge Filters
I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

 

[RussellC]

I still have 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates. Is this normal? If so, when can I see a spike in these?

+1 on the answer above.

Regarding when you should start to see nitrites and nitrates, every tank cycle is different. Some cycle more quickly and some more slowly, so there are no hard 'rules' with regard to timeline.

That said, from the cycling timelines I've seen it's typical to have the height of the ammonia spike be at about the 10 day to 2 week mark. A day or two after ammonia starts dropping is when most people will generally see nitrites start climbing. The nitrite phase generally takes longer -- perhaps on the order of 3 weeks or so after it begins, before nitrites start fully converting into nitrates.

A lot of factors influence this timeline, however, so if your tank takes a little longer try not to worry too much and just keep up with the frequent water changes. If your cycle appears to take significantly longer, however, there could be something causing a stall in the cycle and at that point you might want to ask the community for a little help as to the possible cause.

Good luck!

 

[Deacon22]

Thanks for the replies.

I don't know anyone with a fishtank so I am on my own.

The API kit came today and I tested at 3 PM. .5 Ammonia .25 Nitrites and 0 Nitrates (I guess I should be happy about the nitrities?)

One thing that I didn't understand is the high ph and the regular ph. I tested the high ph and it has the tank at 8.2

After the test I did a 40% water change and now I will wait an hour for another test.

I would imagine if the tank is still high, change again?

Also I will look into prime. I had originally bought safe start, actually aqua start but returned it after someone told me I didn't need it because of well water.

Thanks again

 

[RussellC]

One thing that I didn't understand is the high ph and the regular ph. I tested the high ph and it has the tank at 8.2

There are two different pH tests, each can measure pH in a different range.

I forget where the 'break' is (around 7.6 maybe?), but assuming it's 7.6, one test will measure pH up to 7.6 (after 7.6 it's 'off the scale' and everything higher will register as 7.6). The other measures pH that is higher than 7.6, so any pH lower than that would be 'off the scale' on the low side and show as 7.6.

Again, can't remember if 7.6 is where the actual 'break' is, but that's why there are two pH tests.

If your high pH is 8.2, then your pH is 8.2, as I'm sure that 8.2 is within the parameters of the 'high range' pH test.

That said, most all aquarium fish can adjust to a pretty broad range in pH, provided it is stable. Stability is much more important than whatever the actual number happens to be.

Good luck!

 

[Deacon22]

Quick question, after three days of ammonia around .5 and nitrite around .25, and no nitrates, the tank now tests at 0,0 and 0.

IS this normal or did something happen? I just finished the second week of fish in cycle for a 20 gallon.

 

[jlk]

Has your ph changed at all? If not, just keep up with your daily tests and we shall see how things progress from this point.

 

[Deacon22]

No the PH hasn't changed although it is high. 8.2.

What would it mean if the PH changes?

 

[librarygirl]

No the PH hasn't changed although it is high. 8.2.

What would it mean if the PH changes?

Are you still using the strips or did you get the API Kit? The strips aren't always accurate. For the API tests, shake the bottles for a few seconds before using them and use both ammonia bottles for that test (one goes in first, the next second). Read the instructions for the nitrAte test b/c that has it's own special requirements (shaking for x seconds). Also if you did a water change prior to testing that would explain the 0's.

During cycling it's normal for PH to drop some (doesn't always happen but it can) and if PH drops too low it can stop the bacteria from forming and stall the cycle. Doesn't sound like you have that problem right now though.

 

[jjustinia11]

Hi,

I just went through almost this exact situation. take a look at my thread, jump to the 4th page maybe half way down where the discussion begins to parallels your story the stuff up front is not relevant to you. In the end, I just did a basic fish-in cycle such as yourself. you can see times and actual test pictures from my successful cycle. lots of good background to. In the end basic water changes, using seachem prime, and about 2 months got me fully cycled.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...-been-2-months-help-219041-7.html#post2110627

 

[Deacon22]

Thanks for the responses,

@Librarygirl, I am using API and I do shake it. I am testing the water before I change it. And I shake it like a nut job. Again this morning 0's across the board.

Jjustina, thanks, it seems like I just have to wait it out. Every cycle is different.

I was wondering if the constant water changes would cause a problem. I was still doing 25% PWC even with the ammonia at 0.

 

[librarygirl]

Ah, well if you're changing water even if parameters are 0 that's probably why you're not seeing any readings on your kit. If levels are 0, no need for water changes. Let your test kit be your guide as to when to change water and how much.

 

[jjustinia11]

Thanks for the responses,

@Librarygirl, I am using API and I do shake it. I am testing the water before I change it. And I shake it like a nut job. Again this morning 0's across the board.

Jjustina, thanks, it seems like I just have to wait it out. Every cycle is different.

I was wondering if the constant water changes would cause a problem. I was still doing 25% PWC even with the ammonia at 0.

you need to let your ammonia rise a little to provide food for the beneficial bacteria (BB) that consume the ammonia. if ammonia is 0 you will never cycle. try and keep it at at least 0.5 PPM. I left it at 1 PPM. its a fine balance between too much and too little ammonia, but you need to let some accumulate...its when the level drops to zero not as a result of a water change that you know your tank is beginning to cycle, ie the first set of beneficial bacteria are established. The missing piece is what are your nitrite levels?

 

[Deacon22]

Got some Nitrites

Ok, the last two days I have been seeing about .25-50 Ammonia and .50 Nitrites.

I have continued doing the PWC and the fish and frog seem to be doing well. The frog finally has a little belly. And I saw him sprint to the top for air the other day (really really fast)

Now I have a new problem. I just found out this morning that I have to take off for about four or five days. There's no one to take the fish or do the water changes.

Can I do a water change (50% -75%) right before I leave and expect the fish to be ok when I return?

 

[Calypso77]

They should be fine. I wouldn't do that big of a water change though. JMO

 

[jlk]

If your going to be gone for a couple of days, I honestly would do a few big water changes (50%+) and drop your ammonia and nitrite to zero (not .25ppm or .125ppm). It will build back up over the next few days but hopefully not to lethal levels. If you have anyone you can trust to stop by and add a dose of Prime while your gone, this will help, too. Just make sure you temp match and properly condition your water for changes.

 

[Deacon22]

I returned home after being gone five days. The fish were all fine, but the levels never went up.

The ammonia is still .25 and the nitrite is still .25-.50. 0 nitrate.

How can that be? After almost 6 days, you would think the levels would have gone up.

Any advice? Someone suggested to get another fish, but almost every fish in cycle post I see says not to add anymore.

 

[Mrs.h2012]

I didn't take time to read all responses, but I am doing a fish in as well (on a 10g) and I didn't see a nitrite spike of any kind until week 4 I believe, then my nitrates showed up a few days later. I'm no expert but am learning, and if I remember correctly I think other members have said the nitrite to nitrate conversion takes the longest, so have patience! Also every tank cycle is different and it can't be used as a time table for another tank, so keep that mind also, things happen differently and on a different time table with every tank

 

[callisto9]

I started my journey into fishkeeping the same way, too - backwards. Person at Petsmart just said "add these drops" and then you can add fish. So I put them into an un-cycled tank that day. So far, I've "killed" six out of my eight guppies. My tank is finally cycled, but wow, what a learning experience. I, too, like you, thought my tank was cycled since everything was at zero. But it just meant the tank hadn't cycled yet and I was now doing a fish-in cycle.

I'm learning... *sigh*

I again experienced a similar situation at PetSmart when I was checking out. I mentioned how my fish had died and someone at PetSmart had told me I could put them in right away. The checkout lady, at the same PetSmart, said I needed to "cycle" my tank for a a day, THEN put them in. I think they think cycle = run for a day.

I think most people end up on these forums for the same reason over and over.

Anywho, you're learning, so that's good! It's been a frustrating road for me, but I keep trying!

 

[jlk]

I returned home after being gone five days. The fish were all fine, but the levels never went up.

The ammonia is still .25 and the nitrite is still .25-.50. 0 nitrate.

How can that be? After almost 6 days, you would think the levels would have gone up.

Any advice? Someone suggested to get another fish, but almost every fish in cycle post I see says not to add anymore.

If the fish were not fed while you were gone, the levels would not have changed very much. No more fish until your cycled.