This is right on... it's not only human activity that spreads disease (Although it sure seems to promote it) but everything around us. From the beetles that carry tapeworm juveniles to our dogs. Proper washing of hands probably will take care of most of the things that you would need to worry about (Both in the fish tank and in the "world"). Like Christmasfish said, if you were worried about everything that could infect you, you might as well live your life in a bubble and hope nothing can get to you. For those of us not willing to do this, as long as we take precautions like washing hands after being in the tank water, it should be okay...
Fish Tanks and Human Disease: FYI
- Thread starter Allivymar
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
This is right on... it's not only human activity that spreads disease (Although it sure seems to promote it) but everything around us. From the beetles that carry tapeworm juveniles to our dogs. Proper washing of hands probably will take care of most of the things that you would need to worry about (Both in the fish tank and in the "world"). Like Christmasfish said, if you were worried about everything that could infect you, you might as well live your life in a bubble and hope nothing can get to you. For those of us not willing to do this, as long as we take precautions like washing hands after being in the tank water, it should be okay...
kribbz
Aquarium Advice FINatic
spoken like a true biologist. hahaha
thetmaxx
Aquarium Advice Activist
I have some aquarium antibacterial hand soap for after i clean the tank.
My girlfriend says regular Dial soap with a fish background, but it says aquarium antibacterial on it... LOL
My girlfriend says regular Dial soap with a fish background, but it says aquarium antibacterial on it... LOL
cginflorida
Aquarium Advice FINatic
The big problem with antibacterial products, including soaps, is that they don't kill 100% of the bacteria, and the ones that survive develop resistance to the antibacterial agent. That's why a lot of medicine's antibiotics don't work anymore or are becoming less effective. I just use regular soap.
G
Guest
Guest
I got a good one for you, I just upgraded my 55 gal to a 125, it wnet into a small cycle so I stared to use a cyle chemical that has all the bio and bateria in it, I got some on my hand and by habbit I tent to rub things on my pnts which I happend to be wearing shorts so I got some on my leg ,for two weeks I've been itching like never before, my doctor looked at it and said you have ring worm ,never thought about that but it is a perfect raised circle rash looking thing thats very itchy
ring worm is caused by bacteria and the chemicles to quick cycle your tank including the live sand have everything in it to give you ring worm
They gave me some cream but An older friend of mine told me the best thing for it is clear nail polish, yes that's right ,how does it work ,welll you paint a clear patch over it and it can't breath so it dies, got ride of it in three days, pretty neat
ring worm is caused by bacteria and the chemicles to quick cycle your tank including the live sand have everything in it to give you ring worm
They gave me some cream but An older friend of mine told me the best thing for it is clear nail polish, yes that's right ,how does it work ,welll you paint a clear patch over it and it can't breath so it dies, got ride of it in three days, pretty neat
mushroomfarie
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Man, I must have an immune system from Hades...... I wash my hands now, but I have been playing in fishtanks since I was a kid. I never thought to wash up back then. Also I between my kittens and my Iguanas I am constantly covered in cuts and scratches. I guess I should consider myself lucky.
iguana you say... www.reptileadvice.com hint hint...
not only do antibiotics cause those harmful things to get stronger, but they also allow us to get weaker. I very, very rarely get sick and anytime I do it is usually short lived. I believe it's because I eat fairly well and I love orange juice and other anti-oxidants... I could drink OJ all day long... Last Christmas we visited family in Mass and my wife got sick and lost her voice and both my daughters had high fevers... my 3 year old barely moved for a day or two... of course when she started getting a little better she went from lathargic to cranky...But I never got anything from any of them. Even before hearing about the kinds of germs that can be found anywhere like shopping carts at stores I usually wash my hands after being just about anywhere outside my own house. I'll go to Walmart to buy a few things and come straight home, wash my hands, and you can see the dirt come off... But of course it's the stuff you don't see that's worse... I've swum in several bodies of water I shouldn't have, some were accidental, and I've never suffered any long term serious affects. Anyway, I could go on but don't want to ramble... Other than washing my hands I don't worry about much...
not only do antibiotics cause those harmful things to get stronger, but they also allow us to get weaker. I very, very rarely get sick and anytime I do it is usually short lived. I believe it's because I eat fairly well and I love orange juice and other anti-oxidants... I could drink OJ all day long... Last Christmas we visited family in Mass and my wife got sick and lost her voice and both my daughters had high fevers... my 3 year old barely moved for a day or two... of course when she started getting a little better she went from lathargic to cranky...But I never got anything from any of them. Even before hearing about the kinds of germs that can be found anywhere like shopping carts at stores I usually wash my hands after being just about anywhere outside my own house. I'll go to Walmart to buy a few things and come straight home, wash my hands, and you can see the dirt come off... But of course it's the stuff you don't see that's worse... I've swum in several bodies of water I shouldn't have, some were accidental, and I've never suffered any long term serious affects. Anyway, I could go on but don't want to ramble... Other than washing my hands I don't worry about much...
Toirtis
God of primitive fishes
Christmasfish said:
Bingo...and to think that I am constantly telling people to do as I say, not as I do (not uncommon to catch me cleaning cages/tanks and eating at the same time). The list of things you can get from your aquarium, cat or dog is staggering..really.
G
Guest
Guest
If you are going to wear shoulder length gloves, shouldn't you wear goggles too? I mean water can spurt into your eye while your cleaning.
pcktlnt
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Hi all, this topic is interesting.
If you all want to be disgusted about the human world, read this book by Laurie Garrett, The Coming Plague. It's really nasty.
Cheers
If you all want to be disgusted about the human world, read this book by Laurie Garrett, The Coming Plague. It's really nasty.
Cheers
Paulo
Aquarium Advice Newbie
... just wanna add more info on this articles...
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Lawler_Tank_Safety.html
Tank Safety/Fish TB
by Adrian Lawler, Ph.D.
(retired) Aquarium Supervisor (l984-l998) J. L. Scott Aquarium Biloxi, Ms 39530
Aquarticles
Water is a well known medium for transfer of various diseases. Some fish and other aquatic organisms carry, or get, bacterial infections that can be transmitted to humans. A listing of some of the diseases transferred to humans via fish, etc. is presented in Lawler, Diseases Transmitted to Humans, (in Aquarticles' Management section), and includes Mycobacterium marinum ("fish TB"), Vibrio vulnificus, Vibrio damsela (= Photobacterium damselae), Vibrio spp., Salmonella spp., Erysipelothrix rhusiopathiae, and Streptococcus iniae. Some of the previous bacterial infections can be fatal in humans.
A new listing would be Mycobacterium chelonae, a bacterium related to fish TB, human TB, and leprosy, that can be isolated from water, soil and dust, and is also known to infect various fishes. If your fresh water supply is not treated well enough, you can be exposed to M. chelonae each time you use tap water for tank work and water changes, or for regular daily water uses. There are many records of people getting infected with this bacterium from contaminated water at hospitals (wounds from injury or incisions from surgery are infected), from taking showers in their own home, from contaminated fluids used in medicine, from contaminated insulin injections, from contaminated acupuncture needles, from aerosols from hot tubs, etc. Like M. marinum, M. chelonae is resistant to treatment and hard to cure. One report came to me of a woman with infected breasts that could not be cured after many tries, so the victim had her breasts removed deeper than the site of infection (so no M. chelonae bacteria were left in the breast area) and then had reconstructive surgery done.
Another new listing would be Mycobacterium shottsi, described in 2001, from striped bass in Virginia. In humans it is a disease similar to that caused by Mycobacterium marinum. It doesn't thrive at temperatures greater than 86° F, so it can live on humans on only extremities as a persistent rash. There is no danger of getting the disease from eating a striper; cooking the fish to 170°F for 20 minutes kills these mycobacteria.
The last new listing would be Staphylococcus aureus; Florida health officials said (2003) skin problems reported by several fishermen and at least one surfer in Volusia County were caused by a common environmental bacterium called methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus or MRSA. Infections with this species are usually hospital-acquired by people with weakened immune systems; this species is also found in the home and in the workplace.
During the 7 years since the first article was written, I have received many emails about various aquatic infections (from tanks, fish, and natural waters), and I can report that about 90% of these infections were Mycobacterium marinum. The remaining 10% included Vibrio infections, M. chelonae infections, and infections of unknown origin. Based on the emails I received, the infected aquarists were mostly infected by M. marinum.
Since most people seem to be getting Mycobacterium marinum rather than another type of infection from their tanks, fish, or aquatic areas, I include procedures below to follow to seek a cure. (These steps, in general, would also apply to other types of infections.). Fish TB is related to human TB and leprosy; bacteria of this genus (Mycobacterium) are slow growing, highly resistant to antibiotics, hard to culture, and many times not recognized for what they are. There are human infections of fish TB that have persisted for up to 17 years. I have had fish TB, getting it over 40 years after I starting keeping fish tanks, probably because my immune system was getting weaker.
The secret of getting proper treatment is to find medical people who know what they are doing and have had some experience with fish TB. I present a quick summary of what has to be done to cure fish TB before it leads to a costly, long, trying infection. Do below in order indicated:
1…Get a competent doctor to take a sample from inside the infection (if nodules are easily seen, sample them). Since M. marinum is difficult to culture, sample from the center of the area that appears to have the highest bacterial activity to increase the chance of getting bacterial cells for culturing.
2…Get a laboratory that has previous experience in culturing Mycobacterium to culture the sample taken from the infection. (since Mycobacterium is slow growing, it will take 2 weeks or longer to get the culture results).
3…Have at least 2 samples cultured in case something happens to one. Since fish TB takes so long to culture, any further delays due to lost cultures or bad culture techniques will put you further into the course of the infection (infection will worsen over time), thereby making it more difficult to control the infection and taking longer to cure.
4…IF the culture comes back positive for fish TB, THEN have the laboratory KEEP the cultures from the infection so they can then run sensitivity tests on the cultures using various antibiotics to see WHICH antibiotic is BEST at killing the culture from your infection. You will then have the best antibiotic that will control the strain of fish TB that is in your body.
5…Use chosen antibiotic(s) for cure (since bacteria are resistant and slow-growing it can take a year or MORE to get a cure). They usually use the same drugs (as streptomycin (SM), pyrazinamide (PZA / PIZ), D-ethambutol (EMB), isoniazid (INH), rifampin (RIF), etc) as for human TB.
6...If the culture comes back negative for fish TB, have it tested again because the bacterium is hard to culture.
7...If second sample comes back negative, have further cultures done using a wide range of culture media to find out what types of bacteria are present. Go thru 4 & 5 to get cure.
Another method to identify the infective bacterium is to have your infected tissue sample tested for the presence of Mycobacterium marinum DNA. Make sure the sample is collected and handled properly for DNA analysis. With this method, though, you have not identified the best antibiotic(s) to treat your strain of fish TB.
IF you can recognize the initial signs of the infection, persistent itching and the appearance of small nodules under the skin at site of entry (in my case), then (as I) you have a good chance of stopping the infection quickly before the bacteria get to deeper tissues. And you want to stop it quickly so you do not have to go through a long, trying treatment. Get a doctor to use any of several methods to quickly kill the bacteria that are still shallow and more easily accessible.
Locally, I have found that dermatologists have more experience with fish TB than other doctors.
In order to prevent transfer of various aquatic diseases/parasites from natural waters to humans, or from tank to tank and/or to humans, the following safety practices should be followed:
1….Do not stick hands and arms into tanks (or go into natural waters), or handle aquatic organisms, if you have an open or recent wound.
2….Use protective gloves. We found that using shoulder-length gloves that veterinarians use while working with cows are useful in protecting arms with recent wounds while doing tank work.
3….Do not dive in a tank (or natural waters) containing Vibrio vulnificus if you have an open or recent wound or you are prone to nose bleeds. The water from a tank should be checked for Vibrio vulnificus by a microbiology lab prior to any dive.
4….Sterilize hands and arms with chlorine water (use alcohol if there are wounds) after work in one tank and prior to working on another tank, or rinse hands and arms thoroughly with city water.
5….Wash hands thoroughly (or sterilize) after handling turtles and other reptiles to avoid infection by Salmonella.
6….Never start a tank siphon with mouth suction.
7….If an injury occurs while working in a tank (or natural waters), let wound bleed freely for a while to push possible infecting bacteria back out of the body, then sterilize and protect wound.
8….Seek medical help ASAP if infection spreads (or red streaks occur), throbs, is very painful, or appears different in any way from your "usual" infections.
Conversely, you should not go into a tank with an infection that might inoculate your tank with your bacteria, and which might affect tank occupants, or you again at a later date. Clean (or sterilize) hands and arms before doing tank work.
Those people with weakened immune systems are at greater risk for getting infections. So people with AIDS, diabetes, liver dysfunction, kidney problems, or those undergoing cancer treatment, or of old age, etc. should be especially careful when working on tanks, handling aquatic organisms, or getting into natural aquatic environments.
To protect future tank occupants, break down and sterilize a tank infested with fish TB with chlorox.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
March 2004: Since the posting of his talk, "Diseases Transmitted to Humans," a number of people have contacted Dr. Lawler concerning their own experiences with water borne infections. Infection methods of some of the cases are presented here:
Some Infection Details of Aquatic/Fish Tank Infections
[/b]
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Lawler_Tank_Safety.html
Tank Safety/Fish TB
by Adrian Lawler, Ph.D.
(retired) Aquarium Supervisor (l984-l998) J. L. Scott Aquarium Biloxi, Ms 39530
Aquarticles
Water is a well known medium for transfer of various diseases. Some fish and other aquatic organisms carry, or get, bacterial infections that can be transmitted to humans. A listing of some of the diseases transferred to humans via fish, etc. is presented in Lawler, Diseases Transmitted to Humans, (in Aquarticles' Management section), and includes Mycobacterium marinum ("fish TB"), Vibrio vulnificus, Vibrio damsela (= Photobacterium damselae), Vibrio spp., Salmonella spp., Erysipelothrix rhusiopathiae, and Streptococcus iniae. Some of the previous bacterial infections can be fatal in humans.
A new listing would be Mycobacterium chelonae, a bacterium related to fish TB, human TB, and leprosy, that can be isolated from water, soil and dust, and is also known to infect various fishes. If your fresh water supply is not treated well enough, you can be exposed to M. chelonae each time you use tap water for tank work and water changes, or for regular daily water uses. There are many records of people getting infected with this bacterium from contaminated water at hospitals (wounds from injury or incisions from surgery are infected), from taking showers in their own home, from contaminated fluids used in medicine, from contaminated insulin injections, from contaminated acupuncture needles, from aerosols from hot tubs, etc. Like M. marinum, M. chelonae is resistant to treatment and hard to cure. One report came to me of a woman with infected breasts that could not be cured after many tries, so the victim had her breasts removed deeper than the site of infection (so no M. chelonae bacteria were left in the breast area) and then had reconstructive surgery done.
Another new listing would be Mycobacterium shottsi, described in 2001, from striped bass in Virginia. In humans it is a disease similar to that caused by Mycobacterium marinum. It doesn't thrive at temperatures greater than 86° F, so it can live on humans on only extremities as a persistent rash. There is no danger of getting the disease from eating a striper; cooking the fish to 170°F for 20 minutes kills these mycobacteria.
The last new listing would be Staphylococcus aureus; Florida health officials said (2003) skin problems reported by several fishermen and at least one surfer in Volusia County were caused by a common environmental bacterium called methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus or MRSA. Infections with this species are usually hospital-acquired by people with weakened immune systems; this species is also found in the home and in the workplace.
During the 7 years since the first article was written, I have received many emails about various aquatic infections (from tanks, fish, and natural waters), and I can report that about 90% of these infections were Mycobacterium marinum. The remaining 10% included Vibrio infections, M. chelonae infections, and infections of unknown origin. Based on the emails I received, the infected aquarists were mostly infected by M. marinum.
Since most people seem to be getting Mycobacterium marinum rather than another type of infection from their tanks, fish, or aquatic areas, I include procedures below to follow to seek a cure. (These steps, in general, would also apply to other types of infections.). Fish TB is related to human TB and leprosy; bacteria of this genus (Mycobacterium) are slow growing, highly resistant to antibiotics, hard to culture, and many times not recognized for what they are. There are human infections of fish TB that have persisted for up to 17 years. I have had fish TB, getting it over 40 years after I starting keeping fish tanks, probably because my immune system was getting weaker.
The secret of getting proper treatment is to find medical people who know what they are doing and have had some experience with fish TB. I present a quick summary of what has to be done to cure fish TB before it leads to a costly, long, trying infection. Do below in order indicated:
1…Get a competent doctor to take a sample from inside the infection (if nodules are easily seen, sample them). Since M. marinum is difficult to culture, sample from the center of the area that appears to have the highest bacterial activity to increase the chance of getting bacterial cells for culturing.
2…Get a laboratory that has previous experience in culturing Mycobacterium to culture the sample taken from the infection. (since Mycobacterium is slow growing, it will take 2 weeks or longer to get the culture results).
3…Have at least 2 samples cultured in case something happens to one. Since fish TB takes so long to culture, any further delays due to lost cultures or bad culture techniques will put you further into the course of the infection (infection will worsen over time), thereby making it more difficult to control the infection and taking longer to cure.
4…IF the culture comes back positive for fish TB, THEN have the laboratory KEEP the cultures from the infection so they can then run sensitivity tests on the cultures using various antibiotics to see WHICH antibiotic is BEST at killing the culture from your infection. You will then have the best antibiotic that will control the strain of fish TB that is in your body.
5…Use chosen antibiotic(s) for cure (since bacteria are resistant and slow-growing it can take a year or MORE to get a cure). They usually use the same drugs (as streptomycin (SM), pyrazinamide (PZA / PIZ), D-ethambutol (EMB), isoniazid (INH), rifampin (RIF), etc) as for human TB.
6...If the culture comes back negative for fish TB, have it tested again because the bacterium is hard to culture.
7...If second sample comes back negative, have further cultures done using a wide range of culture media to find out what types of bacteria are present. Go thru 4 & 5 to get cure.
Another method to identify the infective bacterium is to have your infected tissue sample tested for the presence of Mycobacterium marinum DNA. Make sure the sample is collected and handled properly for DNA analysis. With this method, though, you have not identified the best antibiotic(s) to treat your strain of fish TB.
IF you can recognize the initial signs of the infection, persistent itching and the appearance of small nodules under the skin at site of entry (in my case), then (as I) you have a good chance of stopping the infection quickly before the bacteria get to deeper tissues. And you want to stop it quickly so you do not have to go through a long, trying treatment. Get a doctor to use any of several methods to quickly kill the bacteria that are still shallow and more easily accessible.
Locally, I have found that dermatologists have more experience with fish TB than other doctors.
In order to prevent transfer of various aquatic diseases/parasites from natural waters to humans, or from tank to tank and/or to humans, the following safety practices should be followed:
1….Do not stick hands and arms into tanks (or go into natural waters), or handle aquatic organisms, if you have an open or recent wound.
2….Use protective gloves. We found that using shoulder-length gloves that veterinarians use while working with cows are useful in protecting arms with recent wounds while doing tank work.
3….Do not dive in a tank (or natural waters) containing Vibrio vulnificus if you have an open or recent wound or you are prone to nose bleeds. The water from a tank should be checked for Vibrio vulnificus by a microbiology lab prior to any dive.
4….Sterilize hands and arms with chlorine water (use alcohol if there are wounds) after work in one tank and prior to working on another tank, or rinse hands and arms thoroughly with city water.
5….Wash hands thoroughly (or sterilize) after handling turtles and other reptiles to avoid infection by Salmonella.
6….Never start a tank siphon with mouth suction.
7….If an injury occurs while working in a tank (or natural waters), let wound bleed freely for a while to push possible infecting bacteria back out of the body, then sterilize and protect wound.
8….Seek medical help ASAP if infection spreads (or red streaks occur), throbs, is very painful, or appears different in any way from your "usual" infections.
Conversely, you should not go into a tank with an infection that might inoculate your tank with your bacteria, and which might affect tank occupants, or you again at a later date. Clean (or sterilize) hands and arms before doing tank work.
Those people with weakened immune systems are at greater risk for getting infections. So people with AIDS, diabetes, liver dysfunction, kidney problems, or those undergoing cancer treatment, or of old age, etc. should be especially careful when working on tanks, handling aquatic organisms, or getting into natural aquatic environments.
To protect future tank occupants, break down and sterilize a tank infested with fish TB with chlorox.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
March 2004: Since the posting of his talk, "Diseases Transmitted to Humans," a number of people have contacted Dr. Lawler concerning their own experiences with water borne infections. Infection methods of some of the cases are presented here:
Some Infection Details of Aquatic/Fish Tank Infections
[/b]
spankerbob
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
This is serious stuff! My uncle has his own tank maintenance business and he was not using glove and got cut some how which was then infected with some fish oriented bacteria that caused partial paralysis in his face. I know it sounds vague but I don't know the technical terms, but it was not pretty. the sore on his hand or the droopy lips.
Frank_the_Tank
Aquarium Advice Activist
Vitamin C, plenty of sleep, stop worrying about the things you can't control and that don't matter, and eat right. A good immune system is your best defense. I'm a type 1 diabetic living on a college campus, so my immune system should be terrible and I'm in an environment that promotes the spread/growth of disease. The only times I do get sick are when I don't get enough sleep, stop taking my multivitamin/don't eat right, etc... I see people around me get sick all the time, but I manage to avoid most of it. Your body on its own is a pretty amazing thing if it's taken care of properly.
Your body on its own is a pretty amazing thing if it's taken care of properly.AR15 guy
Aquarium Advice Freak
I'm glad I know about this. Because I almost always have open wounds on my hands. Since I work at Advance Auto part time till I get out of school. I always manage to have cuts and stuff on my hands. That disease doesn't sound like fun.
Toirtis
God of primitive fishes
Again, don't lose sleep over this stuff. Over the past 34+ years, I have probably averaged something like contact with 50 different tanks per day...365 days per year, 34+ years...often with small cuts and abrasions on my hands...and all I have ever contracted was dry skin.
Kari
Aquarium Advice Activist
Thanks for the article, that's some good stuff to know. I'm just glad that I'd already made a habit of washing my hands before AND AFTER I've been messing with the aquariums!
G
Guest
Guest
I always scrub my hands really good with an antibacterial soap after working in my aquarium
Similar threads
