Frankenstein cold water 55g bow front?

[ktomminello]

Upgrades have left me specimens and dither fish galore, so I've been thinking about what to do- I have an open custom 50g and an open 55g... I had originally set up a cold water 90g hex for a rescued chocolate oranda and my red capped white oranda, sadly the large chocolate died from bacterial infection despite my best efforts.

So, I do a small amount of skimming information about cold water habitats for saltwater, eventually leading me to freshwater and what to do with 2X 5 small dither fish schools or 1X 10 small dither fish schools, a cherax lobster and red capped oranda- Piggy, and a red tailed black shark....

Do you guys (and gals) have any opinions on if this sized tank and these fish/ invert seem like they could exist in the same 55g bow front, with the right aquascaping, or have any suggestions on what I should do?? I'm taking all the help I can get on this one, lol, but I'm getting there...

 

[Sharpchick]

IMO, goldfish should be a species only tank, and your red capped oranda could go in either tank with two (or three, max) other fancy goldfish.

The red tailed black shark is fine for a semi-aggressive tank, as long as it's the only shark. Your dither fish should be equally as aggressive as the shark if they are going in the tank with him, and they need to be as large as he is. My personal experience with RTB sharks is that once the fish got to be about a year old, it became a very effective killing machine - not to eat its tankmates, just for sport. Small dither fish, regardless of the size of the school, are going to get picked off one by one. I personally would make sure the tank containing this fish was densely planted.

All of the tropicals are just that - tropical, and not suitable for a coldwater tank set-up.

I've never owned a cherax lobster, but I do know the tank should be fully cycled before adding crustaceans, as they are very sensitive to dicey water chemistry.

 

[ktomminello]

I have been advised by several friends that botia, like my redtail, that are Asiatic blackwater can thrive in water as cold as 67°F, most crustaceans fair well between 65°F to 75°F, from my own experience. If I keep my temp at 70- 72°F, I should be ok as far as that tropical versus cold water issue....

My ditherers are usually longfinned blue danio, longfinned leopard danio and red line danio, which get replaced as they disappear- also I plan on using this odd one out family to qt ditherers before they add some cheap and pretty prey for my semi aggressive/ aggressive tanks.

I had initially wanted to do a goldfish feature tank, but my chocolate oranda passed away and I have decided that it's too much work considering I have sa/ca cichlid tanks and an aggressive Southeast Asian jungle blackwater tank. I have an indoor pond/river system that I have my own 500g section, but I already have an upside down giant black catfish (mystus not syndontis) an id shark and 2 oscars (one tiger one red), that I could section off of if need be but I would have to put up an eco wall and change parameters, but I really don't want to for a single small red capped white oranda that is used to sharing close quarters with a Dempsey and loaches- he wasn't really expected to live, but the Dempsey left him alone.


Think it would be better off to have my 55g bow for my goldy and danios (possibly my redtail) and make my 50g into a crustacean tank?

 

[Sharpchick]

Then, I'm curious why you asked the question on a cold water fish forum.

 

[ktomminello]

I was asking on account of needing help with deciding on a layout with plants and aquascaping in a temperate, not tropical zoned plant region, with different parameters than the Amazon basin or Southeast Asian jungle blackwater- I don't know which way is up with water temperatures below 75°F, so this is a 'help me I'm in aquascaping/ plants 101 for dummies- what are my best options?' Anybody who might be able to give me suggestions on anything about the neotropical region- my oranda is a cutie and a very hearty little guy, but to have such a specific key target specs- can anybody understand me? I don't know where else to go....

 

[Sharpchick]

I was asking on account of needing help with deciding on a layout with plants and aquascaping in a temperate, not tropical zoned plant region, with different parameters than the Amazon basin or Southeast Asian jungle blackwater- I don't know which way is up with water temperatures below 75°F, so this is a 'help me I'm in aquascaping/ plants 101 for dummies- what are my best options?' Anybody who might be able to give me suggestions on anything about the neotropical region- my oranda is a cutie and a very hearty little guy, but to have such a specific key target specs- can anybody understand me? I don't know where else to go....

Well see, it's like this...

In your first post, you asked, Do you guys (and gals) have any opinions on if this sized tank and these fish/ invert seem like they could exist in the same 55g bow front, with the right aquascaping, or have any suggestions on what I should do??

So I thought you were really asking that question. And I replied to you.

And you came back and essentially said the same thing I see so many times on cold water forums where someone has a goldfish and a bunch of other fish - tropicals usually - and has decided to throw them all together, and really wants people on a cold water forum, who have owned and cared for goldfish and other cold water fish for years, sometimes decades - to bless your idea.

No matter that the fish you have chosen do not have the same tank size requirements, do not share the same kind of habitat (google "carp habitat" for checking on goldfish), do not share the same temperature requirements, do not share the same food or feeding requirements (as in where in the water column is optimal to feed them, and the answer for goldfish is "on the bottom") and would never be found anywhere close to each other in nature.

I'm not suggesting you do a biotope tank. To do that, you couldn't use a tank for the goldfish, you'd need a pond. On top of that, you could not have suggested a more inappropriate combination than a very placid oranda with a semi-aggressive red tailed black shark. Your oranda will not be able to escape the gnawing on those flowing fins from the shark (or the Dempsey, which has completely different pH requirements from the oranda). It just won't. Period.

If you had just made your initial post to say, "I've got these fish, I'm throwing them all in a 55 together at 75 degrees, my friend said it will work so it will," then I wouldn't have bothered to respond. I don't respond to those kinds of posts.

And as you can see, I'm the only one on this forum who has replied to this one...

 

[ktomminello]

Well see, it's like this...

In your first post, you asked, Do you guys (and gals) have any opinions on if this sized tank and these fish/ invert seem like they could exist in the same 55g bow front, with the right aquascaping, or have any suggestions on what I should do??

So I thought you were really asking that question. And I replied to you.

And you came back and essentially said the same thing I see so many times on cold water forums where someone has a goldfish and a bunch of other fish - tropicals usually - and has decided to throw them all together, and really wants people on a cold water forum, who have owned and cared for goldfish and other cold water fish for years, sometimes decades - to bless your idea.

No matter that the fish you have chosen do not have the same tank size requirements, do not share the same kind of habitat (google "carp habitat" for checking on goldfish), do not share the same temperature requirements, do not share the same food or feeding requirements (as in where in the water column is optimal to feed them, and the answer for goldfish is "on the bottom") and would never be found anywhere close to each other in nature.

I'm not suggesting you do a biotope tank. To do that, you couldn't use a tank for the goldfish, you'd need a pond. On top of that, you could not have suggested a more inappropriate combination than a very placid oranda with a semi-aggressive red tailed black shark. Your oranda will not be able to escape the gnawing on those flowing fins from the shark (or the Dempsey, which has completely different pH requirements from the oranda). It just won't. Period.

If you had just made your initial post to say, "I've got these fish, I'm throwing them all in a 55 together at 75 degrees, my friend said it will work so it will," then I wouldn't have bothered to respond. I don't respond to those kinds of posts.

And as you can see, I'm the only one on this forum who has replied to this one...

Well, your majesty, excuse me, and no, my questions basically are- I've found a medium spot in the completely neutral zone where these can meet, these are my parameters- anybody know of plants or inverts or have any suggestions on plants that might do well in these parameters.

I hope you feel better about yourself now and can get off the back of somebody who does care about your opinions- truth be told instead of answering at all you could've just left it alone. I scan forums for real help and to help others, not to debate how this and this don't go together cuz my iPhone/ Android/ kindle/ computer tells me so....


Honestly all the inhabitants come from the same farm, using the same neutral water as the base for each tank (outside attributes added by hand for breeding standards) so really, unless you can give me some good ditherers and plants info for my parameters leave me alone like you were going to. Sorry, Almighty Better than Thou 'I'm sexy and I know it' person...

ANYBODY WITH AN OPEN MIND THAT UNDERSTANDS HOW TO AQUASCAPE MIND GIVING ME SOME IDEAS FOR FLORA AND FAUNA FROM TEMPERATE (68-72°F) ZONES THAT COULD WORK? ANY SUBSTRATE IDEAS?

 

[shellyx]

Your inbox is full ktomminello.
Lesley

 

[ktomminello]

Your inbox is full ktomminello.
Lesley

Wish the Android app would let me delete without crashing!! Sorry.

 

[shellyx]

Wish the Android app would let me delete without crashing!! Sorry.

Don't worry, just let me know when you've done it

 

[Sharpchick]

...Honestly all the inhabitants come from the same farm, using the same neutral water as the base for each tank (outside attributes added by hand for breeding standards) so really, unless you can give me some good ditherers and plants info for my parameters leave me alone like you were going to. Sorry, Almighty Better than Thou 'I'm sexy and I know it' person...

You know, you might be right...if your fish farm housed goldies in the same tank with red tailed sharks and Jack Dempsey cichlids, then you probably should just go for it.

And I probably should have paid more attention to ...but I really don't want to for a single small red capped white oranda... But, I was more concerned with what was best for the goldfish than what was more expedient for the fishkeeper.

So my suggestion in this forum about goldfish and other cold water and native fish about housing the oranda is that you rehome it.

 

[henningc]

OK. I'm not a moderator, but lets just cool off-No Pun intended.

I agree cold water is just for cold water fish. Have I witnessed people mixing tropicals with cold water, yep all the time. So does it work? I don't think in most cases, but ask the two comets in my fishroom sitting a 80 degrees. Gold fish are a special lot. they have huge bioloads and need a ton of space and maintenance. If you want gold fish set up a special exlg tank.

If I was the poster I would find a home for the goldfish. If you want cold water go field collecting and knock your self out. Just an FYI, the Cherax can not be exposed to American Crayfish, they carry a plague. They do work in a cold water tank.

 

[ktomminello]

OK. I'm not a moderator, but lets just cool off-No Pun intended.

I agree cold water is just for cold water fish. Have I witnessed people mixing tropicals with cold water, yep all the time. So does it work? I don't think in most cases, but ask the two comets in my fishroom sitting a 80 degrees. Gold fish are a special lot. they have huge bioloads and need a ton of space and maintenance. If you want gold fish set up a special exlg tank.

If I was the poster I would find a home for the goldfish. If you want cold water go field collecting and knock your self out. Just an FYI, the Cherax can not be exposed to American Crayfish, they carry a plague. They do work in a cold water tank.

Thank you for the info on my cherax!! I was making up a 55g for crustaceans, including my cherax in the same (using screen partition) tank as my uca sp watermelon, red claw, and was going to pick up 2 more cray. Just gonna stick with Aussie n PNG lobsters n cray then!!

That puts me with a 50g with a capped oranda (4 inches) and black and blue craw (Florida wild caught) plus ditherers.

My red tail shark has found a home in my 90g south east Asian tank (has made friends with my clown loaches- I know how big clown loaches, I'm going to intro them to my 150g when they get bigger)

 

[ktomminello]

Oh- and the native field research tank- that did inspire me to fix up my 500g river section at my moms indoor sanctuary into 2 separate 250g habitats, working on changing parameters on the native side... Researching through fish and game to get my permit (and possibly research grants)... I'm from Maine, so there's an absolutely insane amount of biodiversity- native, introduced and invasive- especially plants!! Plus I'm a recreational tracker and it's high season for us right now- think 250g is enough for a bass with a few other species like perch and pickerel, maybe a school of sunfish??