General co2 question

[TheRingOfFire]

Hi guys,

I am getting conflicting information re; co2 levels. LFS tells me to keep it at 1 bubble per 2-4 seconds for a new setup (currently have carpeting HC, DHC, anubias); the Internet is saying keep the drop checker in the green! (have DIY 4dKH).

I have it at about 20ppm +-5 using both drop checker and KH/ph tables at the moment and everything (even the hair algae, which is taking over EVERYTHING) is pearling.

My question, should levels be at 30ppm consistently during lighting periods irrespective of how new/old/many plants there are in my tank or are the levels dependent on and proportional to this (new or few plants=minimal co2; matured, dense planting=30ppm)?

Thank you all kindly for your advise in advance!

Jayna


Post script, I'm more partial to the drop checker method ATM as before I learned about the importance of 4dKH reference solution, I asked LFS why my drop checker was green for the few days before I even had co2, and they said 'well there must be enough!'.

 

[TheRingOfFire]

....my drop checker was green for the few days before I even had co2, and they said 'well there must be enough!'.

(Using very soft aquarium water that was)

 

[Jkeating8]

For the drop checker issue, what is Kh of your tap water or tank water? Which ever one your used

 

[aqua_chem]

Ok, a lot of things here, so lets address it bit by bit.

I am getting conflicting information re; co2 levels. LFS tells me to keep it at 1 bubble per 2-4 seconds for a new setup (currently have carpeting HC, DHC, anubias); the Internet is saying keep the drop checker in the green! (have DIY 4dKH).

Your rate depends on tank size, surface agitation, diffusion method, drop checker solution, etc. Bubble rate is not standard between different bubble counters, so its not really practical to say "This tank needs x bps." The best advice would be just to start below what you think you need and slowly work up until you're satisfied with the results.

I have it at about 20ppm +-5 using both drop checker and KH/ph tables at the moment and everything (even the hair algae, which is taking over EVERYTHING) is pearling.

People usually use 30 ppm as the recommended target for co2. You can also go higher if you think you need it.

My question, should levels be at 30ppm consistently during lighting periods irrespective of how new/old/many plants there are in my tank or are the levels dependent on and proportional to this (new or few plants=minimal co2; matured, dense planting=30ppm)?

I think that it would be better to think of it as minimal planting = 30 ppm, think planting = more, in that more dense planting usually results in poorer circulation and more uptake (and subsequently lower co2 levels downstream). Plants hardwire themselves for a certain levels, so you want to try to maintain consistent levels throughout growth.

Post script, I'm more partial to the drop checker method ATM as before I learned about the importance of 4dKH reference solution, I asked LFS why my drop checker was green for the few days before I even had co2, and they said 'well there must be enough!'.

This makes me both question the quality of your drop checker solution and the quality of your LFS personnel. Your solution should be blue without co2. Period. That's just the physics of co2 and water. If might be green if your drop check solution isn't good (Chinese products quite often do this). Use low range pH test solution instead of premade solutions.

 

[tropicalmackdaddy]

Not to conflict with what Aqua_chem is saying, the the most important thing for HC success is CO2. Many people crank the co2 to the maximum without harming livestock.

This is especially needed if you are starting with HC that was grown emersed

 

[aqua_chem]

If you're cranking co2 to max, you'll probably kill everything in your tank unless you've got a larger tank. There's really no reason to run your co2 THAT high unless your transitioning from DSM.

 

[TheRingOfFire]

Thanks for all the replies. To clarify, I have DIY 4dKH solution in the drop checker nowdays, however, before I used this solution I was using aquarium water, which at the time had a KH of 1 or 2. It was green (without even having yet installed co2). When the 4dKH went in, it was blue (eureka, problem found).

Ignoring BPS for a minute, could I get conformation from someone that 30ppm (or roughly green DC) is the ideal level *irrespective* of plant density?

 

[tropicalmackdaddy]

If you're cranking co2 to max, you'll probably kill everything in your tank unless you've got a larger tank. There's really no reason to run your co2 THAT high unless your transitioning from DSM.

Sorry poorly worded. Cranking it as high as possible without negatively affecting livestock

 

[aqua_chem]

Ignoring BPS for a minute, could I get conformation from someone that 30ppm (or roughly green DC) is the ideal level *irrespective* of plant density?

Are you looking for another source other than me? If not, I think 30 ppm is a reasonable target. I would not use a word like "ideal" though. Some tanks will benefit from/need more than that, some less. It's a pretty standard starting point when just setting up a tank, after which you can make adjustments as you see fit. I wouldn't consider plant density to be a factor in deciding co2 levels.

To of curiosity, what's your tank size and lighting?

Sorry poorly worded. Cranking it as high as possible without negatively affecting livestock

Ok. I agree with that then. If you can find a sweet spot below the point of negative effects, pretty much all plants will appreciate the extra co2.

 

[TheRingOfFire]

That's fine aqua_chem- I'll get it up to 30ppm and see how things unfold. Supplementary question: will increased co2 help with my algae problem? I'm getting some flying fox, oto's and shrimp today to try and mitigate this dreadful hair algae issue I'm having.

To of curiosity, what's your tank size and lighting?

Currently at around 280L, have 3x30W T8's (1 grolux, 2 daytimes) + 2x39W grolux T5's, all on for 11:30.

Thanks for your assistance.

Jayna

 

[Fishfur]

Curious question. That DIY dKH ? Are you getting it from someone or making up your own solution ? If you make it yourself, are you using distilled water?

I'm not even in touching distance of aqua chem's level of expertise - wish I had paid more attention in chem class way back when, but I'm trying to learn it all now .

However, a friend who makes it for other hobbyists was talking about it and I do seem to recall he said you have to use distilled water to make the reference solution, for it function as it should.

If am wrong about this, do please set me straight. I much prefer to learn the right stuff.

 

[aqua_chem]

Supplementary question: will increased co2 help with my algae problem? I'm getting some flying fox, oto's and shrimp today to try and mitigate this dreadful hair algae issue I'm having.

It will certainly help. The algae eating minions might also help somewhat, but IMO they can't be relied on to make a significant difference.

Currently at around 280L, have 3x30W T8's (1 grolux, 2 daytimes) + 2x39W grolux T5's, all on for 11:30

That's not a LOT of light, probably somewhere around medium. It's not a bad place to be. However, I think that for someone with algae problems your light is on for much too long. I would probably recommend bring that down to 6-8 hours first, lower if necessary. You can also start addressing what algae is there by physical removal using a toothbrush and a net, and you can use hydrogen peroxide against the more resilient stuff.

Are you dosing much for ferts?

 

[aqua_chem]

Curious question. That DIY dKH ? Are you getting it from someone or making up your own solution ? If you make it yourself, are you using distilled water?

I'm not even in touching distance of aqua chem's level of expertise - wish I had paid more attention in chem class way back when, but I'm trying to learn it all now .

However, a friend who makes it for other hobbyists was talking about it and I do seem to recall he said you have to use distilled water to make the reference solution, for it function as it should.

If am wrong about this, do please set me straight. I much prefer to learn the right stuff.

You really should be using distilled water or RODI. Anything else may/likely will have acidic/basic chemicals in it that may throw off your measurements, including bicarbonate already present.

 

[Fishfur]

Thanks for the confirmation.