German Ram

[Johnny Tuttle]

I'm contemplating adding one of these to help control a burgeoning guppy fry population and to enjoy what is fast becoming my vote for the best looking FW fish.

Is a single specimen going to be OK in a 21 gallon community tank with 4 amano shrimp, an apple snail, three adult guppies, plenty guppy fry, two platties, two otocincluses, and 10 neons? Is that just too much bioload for this sensitive cichlid?

If it's not too much bioload, would a male or a female be a better addition?

I do 40% PWCs 2 or 3 times a week, and the tank is heavily planted with java moss, java fern, hygrophilia, and four others I can't name off the top of my head (the back of the tank is so forested already that I can't always find my apple snail, I haven't seen more than one shrimp every other day since I got them, and my otos are only a little more frequently spotted). The PH is high, but I do have a large piece of driftwood in the middle of the tank. I do have several ramshorn snails, too (not the large ones, but the "pests").

I'm wishing now I'd chosen more carefully between a SA and a CA biotope plan rather than combining them (and then adding in plants from whereever). I still would have done the guppies, but I wouldn't have gone with platties.

 

[bs6749]

GBR's aren't as sensitive as everyone claims they are. I have plenty of experience with them and can tell you that they would breed in a ph of up to 8.4 or more and successfully rear fry. They also will spawn in hard water of over 300 ppm. As with any fish, no ammonia or nitrites should be present in the tank. Nitrates should be kept under 30ppm, I keep mine under 10 ppm but that's easy to do with plants.

If you are serious about getting Mircogeophagus ramirezi you should get a male and a female pair and make sure they are not from Asia as those die off in 3 months because of hormones to color the fish for quicker sale. Find a local breeder if you are serious about them.

However, if you do decide to get them, your current tank will not be suitable for the rams as they will make quick work of the amanos unless you are okay with that. I put some feeder ghost shrimp in my 55 when I kept GBR's and they ate all of the ghost shrimp (1"+) within 4 days or so. If you take out the amanos you could keep a pair of rams in the tank.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

Even with the quantity of fish I currently have, you'd say a pair would be fine?

I think I'm ok with the shrimp's being eaten if that doesn't make me a cruel person. Even though there's some evidence of them doing OK in my tank--there was an empty shell last night, indicating molting. Still, they aren't running and playing at all in my tank.

I'm inspired by Purr's 10 g cherry tank--that might be a nice route for me to go later on. I'd likely get greedy and include white clouds or something in that later tank.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

Do solitary rams not thrive?

 

[bs6749]

Rams do better when kept in multiples of sexed pairs. With either 2 males or 2 females in the same tank you are likely to have aggression issues and one will always be the weaker and show submissive (dark/drab/pale) coloration. I'd think a pair of rams would be much better than a lone ram because you will get to see MUCH more behavior and different sides to the fish if you keep them in male/female pairs. I'm certain that the rams would feel more comfortable in the tank if there were more of them present and it'd be a more enjoyable experience for you if you kept them in pairs.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

I should clarify here my stance on my amano shrimp--I realize this morning when I did my normal check to see if I could see one that my comment in this thread could seem rather harsh especially when I asked here for advice on inverts for my tank.

Somehow, even with careful checking and planning, I've likely introduced the shrimp to an environment that's stressful to them. Lucikly, I've got substantial hiding places and a really rather heavily planted tank (nothing like Purrbox's tanks, sure, but more enough plants that I can have very real difficulties finding both otos and my apple snail). The shrimp may very well be healthy and relatively happy without ever coming out for me to see them. The livebearers are too quick to move on anything that looks edible, and I won't combine them with shrimp again, me thinks.

I'm figuring that I can't further stress already stressed and fearful shrimp with GBRs, in other words. The shrimp are already playing cloak-and-dagger as though their lives depended on it, and watching the bottomless pits that are my platties, they're probably right.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

I'm off to the LFS in a moment. I think I'll buy a single male now and then a female in a week--that way, I'll ease them in. I'm having second thoughts on a potentially breeding pair for fear that they get territorial to the max with eggs. I will still certainly listen to more opinions/suggestions.

 

[bs6749]

Might want to say your goodbyes to the Amanos once you bring the ram home.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

If I could see the amanos.....

I got a female gold ram. She's not even looking at the guppy fry, and she's picked up some of the livebearers feeding habits. She's even joined in the feeding frenzy.

At least, I think she's a girl. She's got quite a bit of red on her underbelly.

 

[black hills tj]

Congrats on the pickup!

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

Thanks very much.

I'm assuming some red on the belly is enough to consider her a female?

I feel badly about the amanos; I'd been mistaken getting them with platties in the tank. I don't think I'm going to mix shrimp with fish over 1-1.5 again. Had I only neons and guppies, those shrimp likely would have been OK.

At some point, I'd love to do a 10 gallon with white clouds and red cherries. Until then, my apple snail and my hitchhiker ramshorns are my inverts.

 

[black hills tj]

Thanks very much.

I'm assuming some red on the belly is enough to consider her a female?

I feel badly about the amanos; I'd been mistaken getting them with platties in the tank. I don't think I'm going to mix shrimp with fish over 1-1.5 again. Had I only neons and guppies, those shrimp likely would have been OK.

At some point, I'd love to do a 10 gallon with white clouds and red cherries. Until then, my apple snail and my hitchhiker ramshorns are my inverts.

I would have to see a picture to be somewhat positive about the sexing of this ram. Does it have a tall black spine at the very front of its dorsal fin? This spine is typical of males, and the red belly is typical of females.

I recently acquired some long finned white clouds. I really like them. They are friendly and have interesting personalities.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

It doesn't have the black spine, but admittedly, they red belly is less prominent this morning.

My LFS is getting a new shipment of blue GBRs on Thursday; I have until then to try to get a camera working to post a photo here and sex this fish effectively.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

And this lovely little German Gold Ram brought home ich with her potentially. I'm starting the heat treatment and hoping my eyes deceive me.

 

[black hills tj]

And this lovely little German Gold Ram brought home ich with her potentially. I'm starting the heat treatment and hoping my eyes deceive me.

I missed where you said Gold Ram in your previous post. If its a gold, then none of them will have a black spine. My bad :S

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

No worries. I think it's a girl ram, but it's my own fault for not having a camera working to get complete confirmation here.

And unless I can rule out ich, even buying from the same tank at the LFS from which the ich came might be out. So no male german blue ram as was planned this weekend.

 

[bs6749]

If you are treating for ick anyway you might as well pick up a male and treat it too. The worst thing that will happen is that it dies in your tank rather than at the lfs. I'm sure you'll be refunded if it dies on you. It's not like your tank is going to be infected any worse if the male has ick too.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

that's true.

I'm doing the heat treatment, and I'm going to do even more water changes to get rid of the parasites, too.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

Is this really a girl?

I'm holding off onto the male until next weekend, but I did let the LFS know that I likely got ich from them.

I thought it wise to make sure I do have a female. I've tried some photos, but we shall see if they are any good--sufficient for you folks to confirm my inclination here.

Thanks.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

Also, in the first picture, do you see the roundish "thing" midway through her body above the spine? It's only visible on one side, but it's been there since I got her. I didn't notice it at all in the LFS.