Going to LFS to get established media: What to ask for?

[jetajockey]

Getting seeded media isn't a terrible idea. There's likely nothing deathly in the gravel, either. The suggestion of getting plants for their bacteria/uptake content is good, but if you aren't treating the plants before sticking them in then its running the same risk you would if you used established media. Gravel media is going to be less effective than filter media, but I don't think there's a 'safe' factor between the two, as in, I don't think that the filter media is going to magically somehow be safer than the gravel, considering they are all part of the same ecosystem.


If you want another route, I've had good results with Tetra safestart, I tested it 4 times and had 75% success rate with it. I've also had 100% success in the 3 tests I did with Angelsplus "active" sponge filter, and the nice thing about that product was at the end of cycling I had a nice sponge filter as well.

I do not recommend seachem stability, stress zyme, hagen cycle, and nearly every other bacteria supplement. Most of them are faulty in principle so do your homework and don't just accept the claims. There are a few that I haven't tested extensively but seem to have the right science behind their product, like fritzzyme and dr tim's , but I've not tested them.

 

[jimenezlee]

Okay, I will contribute my 2 cents, be warned though I did my cycle fish in. I'm going to recite from memory from an article in the Seachem website, under library called managing ammonia.

The basic summary is that you may have too much free ammonia for your tank to start cycling properly. The bacteria that turn it into nitrite need it to be "bound"; a product like ammo lock should make it available for the bacteria you want to multiply. It wont remove it, just adds an ion to it. When PH is high, the ammonia has a harder time binding as well, what is your ph?. This is FYI, don't mess with the PH.

By the way, you won't get much of the bacteria that turns nitrites into nitrates until the ammonia starts getting converted, as this second type of bacteria doesn't do very well when there is too much ammonia.

I hope this isn't too confusing, read the article, it may help understand what is going on and at least partially restore tour patience.

You will get there, most of us go through a difficult 1st cycle. Mine took 6 weeks, the one good thing is that you will have your own starter culture later on for any future tanks.

 

[Pecktec]

OK, this is nit-picky and technical but the studies I am aware of demonstrate that the majority of aquatic plants prefer ammonia to nitrates, and can also take up ammonia as much as 5 times faster than nitrates.

It is true that in ammonia will inhibit the uptake of nitrates and plants actually seem to grow better if they use nitrates....but they still like ammonia better

Well live and learn I guess. Do you have a good web article on that? I have been told the opposite but I never checked up on it. So thanks for correcting me.

 

[doublenerds]

Heya Pecktec,

I am not certain if there's a user-friendly source on the web, but here are a couple of source articles:



The interaction between ammonium and nitrate uptake in phytoplankton

Ammonium uptake in Lemna gibba

I have apparently been spending a little too much time reading Walstad. She has a huge bibliography at the end of every chapter which points to the primary research from which she draws her conclusions.

 

[James_in_MN]

Getting seeded media isn't a terrible idea. There's likely nothing deathly in the gravel, either. The suggestion of getting plants for their bacteria/uptake content is good, but if you aren't treating the plants before sticking them in then its running the same risk you would if you used established media. Gravel media is going to be less effective than filter media, but I don't think there's a 'safe' factor between the two, as in, I don't think that the filter media is going to magically somehow be safer than the gravel, considering they are all part of the same ecosystem.

I could be wrong here, but I do believe that the likelihood of obtaining a hitchhiker is much higher with used gravel than filter media.

 

[Tanktop]

Have just seen this thread. I finished s fishless cycle this morning. I got seed material from lfs. The first stage took 2 or 3 days (ie ammo to nitrite), but the next stage has still taken 4 weeks and I now have planaria nematodes 2 different species of snail and a hydra outbreak so it's fair to say the risk of introducing unwanted guests is very real. The necessary bacteria will eventually seed if you add nothing so maybe patience is the best option. Wish I'd been more patient. Suffice to say I won't be buying fish from that lfs

 

[ejaramillo01]

Have just seen this thread. I finished s fishless cycle this morning. I got seed material from lfs. The first stage took 2 or 3 days (ie ammo to nitrite), but the next stage has still taken 4 weeks and I now have planaria nematodes 2 different species of snail and a hydra outbreak so it's fair to say the risk of introducing unwanted guests is very real. The necessary bacteria will eventually seed if you add nothing so maybe patience is the best option. Wish I'd been more patient. Suffice to say I won't be buying fish from that lfs

That's so true!
+1

 

[Hubert90]

Have just seen this thread. I finished s fishless cycle this morning. I got seed material from lfs. The first stage took 2 or 3 days (ie ammo to nitrite), but the next stage has still taken 4 weeks and I now have planaria nematodes 2 different species of snail and a hydra outbreak so it's fair to say the risk of introducing unwanted guests is very real. The necessary bacteria will eventually seed if you add nothing so maybe patience is the best option. Wish I'd been more patient. Suffice to say I won't be buying fish from that lfs

AMEN

 

[jetajockey]

I could be wrong here, but I do believe that the likelihood of obtaining a hitchhiker is much higher with used gravel than filter media.

What kind of hitchhiker are we talking about? Planaria? Most stuff is harmless, if we are talking about something like a parasite or disease, ich spores, or whatever, then the filter media is going to collect them just like the gravel will.

I can understand the concern for unwanted snails and other hitchhikers, but when adding a lot of stock (plants especially) it is sometimes an inevitability.

You can circumvent alot of the risk by dipping plants and quarantining new fish for some time, if it is really a concern.