Gold Saum - PROTRUDING ANUS!

[SKB]

baha! Thank you!!

I will let you know what I come up with. INTERNAL INTERNAL INTERNAL!!!

 

[SKB]

Ok so I went back to my lfs and I didn't see anything internal. I asked the guy I usually ask questions (he seems to know what he's talking about) and he gave me seachum metronidazole. It's a powder form, gonna try that.

Everyone's in a separate tank, I'm nervous since one wasn't cycled that it'll stress him out.. I'll keep you updated

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Explain? (My blond moment)
All fish in one tank or each fish in its own tank?
If it's the former use main system filter. For the latter just keep an eye on water, change as necessary.

Use an airline to keep main tank from stagnating if you remove the filter, some cleaning of main tank will be necessary to rid system of worms. Some meds advise you to remove carbon from system if any is in filter.

Hope fish are ok, and I'm glad the wall helped!

Most of the time I use meds I run the tank at a lower volume, dose per instruction, at the next dose add some water and dose per new volume. It incorporates the water change as outlined above and you use less product.

 

[SKB]

Each fish is in a separate tank. I left my Pleco and Dempsey in my 75 (original tank), my firemouth (tailless) is in a 29 gallon I already had moved a week before this got bad bc of bullying, and my gold saum is in a 10 gallon un-cycled because I had to get new filter media without carbon. The other filters have carbon in them from the other tanks, I turned up the heat in those but no one else is showing symptoms so I'm hesitant removing the cycled media to treat. What should I do about this? Just take the filter out and keep wet or just take the media out and keep the media wet?

My gold saum is ok I guess. He's pissed at me and won't get excited when I come to the tank anymore and doesn't really acknowledge me, and isn't eating what I just put in. Cichlid staple pellets soaked in salt. I threw in some blood worms and that didn't work yet either. Hopefully, this doesn't continue, doesn't he need to eat still even if it is light?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Remove carbon from all filters.
As for the other filter elements? Without nitrogenous waste the bacteria will die anyway. I think the carbon removes or neutralises the meds, most meds advise it's removal.
Sounds like a right headache for you!

Fish can go some time without eating, my bichir was only fed every 2/3 days.
In the wild meals are never regular.

The tank where the worms were photographed will be infected. The fish to watch is the plec, a bottom feeder will eat those worms. Keep a close eye on this fish.

If you push the Temp. up additional O2 is required. Fish consume considerably more oxygen at higher temps.

Keep a close eye on the water, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite.

 

[SKB]

yes, I have lowered the water level, and I siphoned the sand the last two days in the main tank where it started. I do still have my JD in there with the pleco so they are still giving off some bioload.

I understand he can go without eating for a while just makes me nervous its getting worse even though it may not appear to be. I don't see anything coming out of his vent anymore but, that's because he isn't eating I guess.

I will remove the carbon tonight after work and treat all tanks. I also am going to check all parameters.

Tried to feed the gold saum on lunch, still not even thinking about approaching it.
The Jack Dempsey is being skiddish, not sure if that's because he always has been without a dither fish, and now nothing is in there to get him out or what. So gonna make sure all precautions are taken.

Thank you for your continuing help!

 

[SKB]

I have read up more about the Seachem product I bought and it is most effective through feeding. My GT isn't eating so...

It did say it still helps but I feel like maybe there's more I can do. I read up about Epsom salt. I have Epsom salt but it isn't anything I bought at my lfs, I just bought it at my local grocery store. Not sure if it is aquarium safe, I will look at brand on my lunch. Otherwise I do have aquarium salt, does that work the same?

Would it help to put Methylene Blue in the tank while treating? Any one know of any good internal parasite medication besides the Seachem Metrodanizole?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Products in the UK, Praziquantel or levamisole. Treats different worms.

Do not mix meds. Can be very poisonous.

Seachem paraguard. Is a product available on both sides of the shore. Doesn't require food consumption. You may also know prazi-pro a similar water course treatment

Once course complete, use carbon and water changes to clear meds from water before starting new course.
Allow recovery period for fish, at least 3 days after final dose.

 

[SKB]

so no to any type of salt?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

I wouldn't say no, but salt will alter pH.
Some fish are specific about pH tolerance. It is easier to say no to be safe.
Major pH shifts can kill or seriously stress fish. Salt use will be most apparent in low volume tanks. If you can test for (TDS)-gH/kH and pH and are confident with the methods used to alter pH then it should be ok providing you know the upper limit for stock (freshwater).

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f60/ro-water-tds-level-285731.html link to basic water chemistry.

Hyper/hypo salinity has known results for treatment of ich. Has possible use to sterilise tanks.

Gracious with gratitude. Thank you once again.

 

[SKB]

one more thing I read about. I read about dips. Would u suggest keeping him in the hospital tank like I am, or being in the main tank regularly and doing dips daily? I read up about doing 4-7 dips a day with double the medicine im using and methlyane blue and salt....?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

If you are treating with the appropriate water course medication that should be sufficient.
Dips are generally used when keeping the fish quarantined is impractical, large koi for example.

Personally I would run one course, make notes on type and its effects, document with pictures.
Go though the process of med removal and recovery phase.

Run course 2, repeat as above.

You can dip them but the stress of capture and dunk will add to the stress load, stress alone is a trigger for some infection and disease.

Research-Osmotic shock, temperature shock and pH shock.

Care should be taken when transferring from one medicated solution to another, previous post concerning toxicity of mixed medical solutions.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

If a sick fish dies it is often consumed by its tank mates. This will normally infect the diner.

In your particular case, if the fish releases any more worms these will potentially infect other inhabitants of the tank.

I can't tell you what is best here. These are observations I have made during my time as a fish keeper.

You can keep them all together but you significantly increase potential for further infection and loss.

I would advise against it where possible.

 

[SKB]

Yeah I thought so. I just can't help but think he might not be eating because he isn't happy about the smaller tank. I fed him right before the transfer n he ate.

There are no signs he's infected, except for not eating and his stomach is very slightly showing he should be hungry. I haven't seen any worms and his protruding vent is gone but Ik this means nothing yet.

I will make sure to not use more than one med. thank you for your help and I will document this as stated.

 

[SKB]

so, so far I moved him to the 10 gal, put a mix of new dechlorinated water with prime and some water from the 75 gallon established tank. Added required meds and a small amount of aquarium salt. Day 2, tried to feed, nothing. Day 3, cleaned tank 60-65% or so today, added required meds and small amount of aquarium salt. still no eating though.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

I found this, Green terror, Aequidens rivulatus Profile, with care, maintenance requirements and breeding information for your tropical fish

Given what you have said and what I have learned from the link above, perhaps 10g may not be enough water, depends on fish size and filtration.

More water is more stable over a given time period.
It is tough for me to judge from here.

Cheap large plastic storage containers from Home Depot, B and Q, home DIY stores etc. ideal temp tanks. Kitchen stores are best as the plastic is normally food grade and will be 100% safe.

Not sure what they are called stateside.

I hope this helps and I also hope all the fish make it.

 

[SKB]

The 10 gallon is the hospital tank, I have heard of people putting Oscars in 10 gallon if they fit for a temporary hospital tank, I def wasn't keeping him there. I've seen that page before. I know what he/she needs. But my only other option is keeping him in the main tank. Last time I used a storage tub my landlord freaked because water got on the floor around it and bubbled.

I have my jack Dempsey and marble sailfin pleco still in the 75 gallon. firemouth in a 29 gallon and the only other tank I have is the 10, which the gold saum/green terror is in. The only reason they are in the tanks they are in is because I had separated the firemouth 1-1 1/2 weeks before this happened because of aggression issues and he was getting beat up by the GT. So he was already in the 29. I didn't want to move him because maybe he had not come in contact with any of the parasite so I kept him in the non infected tank. I guess I could have moved him, but that might be his home for a while so I kept the firemouth there. I figured the GT was the worst case, as I had not seen any signs from any other fish so I quarantined him in the 10 gallon. It was either that or keep him in the 75.

So now, what do you suggest I do.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Whoa lady, stop right there!

I wasn't picking fault, I found that page as I know nothing about the saum! I was finding out about the fish and I thought it may help you. You obviously care very much otherwise you wouldn't be here going through all of this. Please don't think I'm harassing you for your tank choice. I most certainly am not!

Currently your face should look like this

Yes I realise some small tanks are ok short term, I am just adding up the info you have given, feeds in big tank, doesn't look happy in small tank, doesn't feed in small tank.

This could be because of illness, it may be tank size?

It is difficult for me to judge from here. In any case the main system needs cleaning or treating but I understand you don't want to stain the silicone joint.

peace!

 

[SKB]

I come in Peace

I am sorry if I came off that way! Sometimes I think I do and don't realize it. I did read up about my GT before I bought it, and I still refresh my brain every now n then.

I should've said -

I AGREE. Ive thought about putting him back in the big tank. And I could, but I feel very strongly about not staining the glass. But I looked up more seachum products and think I could get away with it. I also don't want to ruin the fact the big tank is cycled, but when it comes down to It, whatever saves my GT. I do know hes happier in the big tank. But he is only 3-4 inches, so I thought it would be ok temporarily. But if I had a huge house, and downgraded to a 1 room house, id be pretty angry too.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

I am sorry if I came off that way! Sometimes I think I do and don't realize it.

I do that everyday, cold is how I would be described or maybe sarcastic, text is more difficult to interpret, what you say depends on my mood if that makes any sense? Perhaps I read it wrong?

IVE GOT THE RIGHT HUMP <that's a joke!

No need to apologise, I was just clarifying my intention.

It doesn't stain the glass, it will stain clear silicone which fades over time but never completely clears, it can also stain artificial decor.
If silicone is black, no probs, remove fake decor, no probs.

That's my experience of malachite green and methylene blue.

With fish care a lot of what happens is at the owners discretion, you know the animal. I'm trying to help with all I know, the diseases are the same.

I hope that popcorn is sweet!