goldfish growth stunt?

[laur94x]

So I bought a little black moor a couple of years ago and about 6 months later I added a little calico goldfish. They were both about 1 inch or so, still very small. Well at the time I had an insanely small tank (14 litres - a couple of gallons I think) because I was told that was fine for 4 golfish - yes FOUR! I now realise how terrible that was. As soon as I found out they needed a much larger tank and managed to convince my parents I put them in a tank I got given as a tempory house, 50 litres - about 15 gallons I think. I. Know this is still MUCH too small for them so I'm literally getting rid of a shelving unit in my bedroom to put a 100+ litre tank in. I've heard 110 litres would be okay for them? They're only about 1.5 - 2 inches but my main question is, if I moved them to a bigger tank as soon as possible what are the chances of them starting to grow properly again? Obviously their growth has been stunted badly because of the horrible tank size would they start growing again once in a better tank? I'd love to see them in a lovely big planted tank. I feel so cruel having them in such a small tank. Can't wait to get a bigger one. Also, what size would be good for them? I know the bigger the better but I can't have anything enourmous as it'll go through the floorboards lol so what would be the size they need? Thanks

 

[laur94x]

Could someone move this to general discussion please, I posted in the wrong place and don't know how to. Thanks

 

[Sharpchick]

You've got a lot of questions in here.

Yes, get the 110 liter as soon as possible. (My converter says that's about 29 US gallons.) Those are the only two fish you can have in a tank that size. Repeat that to yourself every day. And even then, the 110 might not be big enough depending on what breed your calico is. (See below.)

When you get the 110, make sure to move your filter media from the old tank to the new one. When you got the 50 liter, unless you moved the filter media from the smaller tank, you started the cycling process all over again.

You need to be doing large daily water changes in a tank as small as 50 liters. Doing daily water changes in any tank where you are cycling with fish in is a good idea, and at a minimum, you must check your water chemistry each day to guide you in how often and how much water you change.

Get a test drop kit - don't mess with the test strips. API makes a good master test kit.

I know you must be dechlorinating your water during water changes, but with a tank as small as you have right now, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates can build up fast. It would be a good idea to get either some Amquel (made by Kordon) or Prime (made by Seachem) to use to detoxify the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. These products protect the fish from specified levels of ammonia, but do not remove it, so it's still available to continue your cycle.

Goldfish tanks need to be double filtered, IMO. Getting one filter for a 110 liter tank is not enough filtration - get another one also. I have 3 filters on my 29 gallon goldfish tank - two HOBs, one rated for a 40 gallon tank, and one rated for a 30, and a sponge filter rated for a 40 gallon tank. (I run sponge filters on all my tanks, for the extra biological filtration, and in case of power failure, I can hook up battery operated air pumps to them.)

Even goldfish as small as yours are heavy waste producers. You said you got a calico goldfish, but you didn't say what breed. If it's a fantail, common, or comet, that fish needs to be rehomed as soon as possible to a pond, unless a tank of 55 US gallons or more is in your very near future. Your moor would be very comfortable by him/herself in your 110 liter tank. If you could post a photo of the calico, that would be helpful to other posters who come along to respond to your thread.

Surface agitation is important to keep sufficient oxygen available for goldfish. When you get your 110 liter, lower the water level to about 1/2 inch from the rim, so your filters can make a splash when the water from the outflow hits the surface. (I do not recommend that in your current 50 liter, because those fish need as much water as they can have available in that size tank.)

Now, about stunting. In the olden days, fish keepers were taught that fish grew into the size of their tanks. So small tank = small fish.

Now we know just how simplistic and incorrect that line of thinking is. Size of fish is reliant on multiple factors - water quality, quality and quantity of food, genetics. All these things combine with size of the environment to determine the ultimate adult size of the fish.

The reason goldfish in a well kept pond grow faster and larger is due to all the sorts of things I mentioned above. Goldfish in a pond can graze all day, which is the type of feeding they do in the wild. The algae in the pond, the roots of the floating pond plants, unlucky mosquitoes and other bugs who happen by - all this makes for a lovely snacking tray for the goldfish all day long.

 

[laur94x]

Thanks for the reply, very helpful. I will look for a 110+ definitely. I currently do frequent water changes, my levels are all good because I have a filter 10 x tank litres and I gravel vac regularly too, plus I have real plants. I'm not sure what my calico is, ill have a google. I cycled my tank using everything from my old tank - the filter media, gravel, ornaments etc so it just caused a mini cycle which I got under control. My filter creates aggitation and I have a bubble wall which they like too. I'm desperately trying my hardest to make my goldies happy about discovering all the stuff I was told at the pet shop was rubbish

 

[laur94x]

And I definitely wouldn't be having any more goldfish in a 110 litre anyway, I wouldn't have ever bought them if I had any idea how big a tank they needed

 

[laur94x]

Oh and I have an API master test kit. My levels are always -
Ammonia - 0.10
Nitrites- 0
Nitrates 0.30
And this is exactly what my tap water levels are so no amount of water changes helps. However I still do them frequently

 

[laur94x]

this is the calico. Fantail maybe?

 

[jlk]

this is the calico. Fantail maybe?

Your pic did not come up but does he have a double tail or a single tail?

 

[laur94x]

Single?

 

[jlk]

He/she has double tail. It looks like its a ryukin but lets see how he develops.

 

[laur94x]

Okay thank you I know nothing about goldfish, what size do they grow to roughly? I researched all my tropicals before buying them and did things properly this time but I bought my goldies quite a while ago and honestly had no idea, I got told such rubbish by the shops better get on gumtree and find them a nice big tank

 

[jlk]

Well, as they have been in a small tank for a year (+), I honestly do not know how big they will grow at this point. You should see them start to grow with a bigger tank and more water plus a good diet. Will they reach their full genetic potential? Not likely, but you can offer them a nice happy home to live in and they will grow larger, too.

Goldfish do have quite a bit of growth potential and will continue to grow through out their lives as long as they have adequate water and food. My largest fancies are over 10in and my local breeder has some fancies that exceed 12in (but they live in ponds) and are as big around as a softball or grapefruit.

 

[laur94x]

Oh right thank you to honest, no matter what their size I'd love to see them in a nice big tank anyway. I feel sorry for the poor little things. Been bugging my parents to let me get a big tank for them for Ages but didn't haven't the room so now I'm making it in my bedroom.

 

[Sharpchick]

Sounds like you are doing the best you can with the small tank.

And yes, the pic looks like a ryukin to me also. As they mature, the hump should get more pronounced, but some ryukins don't ever develop the really pronounced hump.

If it's a ryukin, s/he should be fine with the moor in a 110 liter as long as you keep up your good fishkeeping practices.

Don't beat yourself up too much on going with the LFS advice. I think most of us learned the lesson with our first tank - if we had a "do over," we'd know before we ever spent a dime to read. And read some more. And read some more.

 

[laur94x]

Thank you any advice on what's the best gravel for them once I get a new tank?

 

[Sharpchick]

I'm partial to natural, uncoated gravel - a little larger than pea sized. They do pick up gravel and spit it out, and you can read horror stories on all kinds of forums about a fish getting gravel stuck in its mouth. That's never happened to any of mine.

If you are wanting to plant your tank, you need to think about depth. Very deep gravel is hard to keep clean. I plant crypts and other rooted plants in little terra cotta pots and set them on the gravel. The fish have a really hard time uprooting them that way. For anubias and java fern, I tie those off to rocks I lay on top of the gravel until they can root (anubias have a rhizome that shouldn't be buried).

I'd definitely move my old gravel to the new tank if I were you.

ETA: There are also lots of goldfish keepers who are fans of bare bottom tanks. Those just look weird to me, but to each his own...

 

[laur94x]

Yeah I like the natural, little pebble looking things. What do I do about the fact that I would barely have any gravel to cover a bigger tank? Can I put it in plant pots so that the bacteria can transfer or whatever?

 

[jlk]

Yep, you can stick plants in pots. Another consideration is to use pool filter sand. It looks nicer than bare bottom and its very easy to clean because all the debris and waste stays on top. I have removed a piece of gravel before and this was not a pleasant experience. Needless to say, I no longer have gravel. Just something else to consider.

 

[laur94x]

Yeah I have sand in my tropical tank and I like the way that looks. It is easy to clean too. Was a pain at first though, it takes days to settle even though its been cleaned for ages. Wasnt sure if sand with goldfish was a good idea though.
Can't believe it, I always see loads of tanks on gumtree/preloved/ebay etc and now I can actually get one I can't find any :/ lol

 

[laur94x]

Don't suppose there's anyone in the UK around essex on here with a nice big goldie tank who'd take the ryukin (or whatver the one I posted a picture of is)? I couldn't seperate him and the black more as they're really close but my black moor is looking really poorly and I don't think he's going to make it this time. He's had problems from the start, due to the small tanks I'm assuming, no matter how hard I try to keep the water levels good etc and I think the swim bladder,fin rot etc that I've treated in the past has all taken its toll. Strangely enough the ryukin never seems affected by anything, he always looks happy and healthy (touch wood!). I've found a brand new juwel 110 litre long tank for £138 with filter and heater but if I want the cabinit its £203 or more I think. If the black moor pulls through the next few days whilst I get rid of a shelving unit in my room I will be getting that though