I don't think its really all the companies faults we as American consumers are lazy and want everything we need available in one store being a responsible pet owner means making sacrifices and devoting time to out pets but in this drive thru society we have forgotten that convience is not competence
Has anyone ever complained to a chain store about their fish care
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Tim Wheatley
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Oh absolutely. The customer should do their own research. But often if you ask an employee of somewhere you're buying from you really expect not to need a second opinion, but for some reason that is the norm for pet stores.
Customers are certainly also to blame. But again, this isn't just a fish problem... People go out and buy dogs of particular breeds and then realize far too late that breed isn't great around their children, for example. I actually have a disabled cat which was going to be euthanized as a kitten, he has seizures and mobility problems. I researched his condition and decided to take him on. As he has grown his problems have gotten a lot better and now he is fairly well trained (yes, you can train cats), so he meows at us when he needs the bathroom. Some people have serious problems with that level of responsibility but it is essential to understand things like that before you get involved. I could actually say the same about pretty much everything... I think my wife and I get along so well because we actually had each other worked out before we started anything!
Customers are certainly also to blame. But again, this isn't just a fish problem... People go out and buy dogs of particular breeds and then realize far too late that breed isn't great around their children, for example. I actually have a disabled cat which was going to be euthanized as a kitten, he has seizures and mobility problems. I researched his condition and decided to take him on. As he has grown his problems have gotten a lot better and now he is fairly well trained (yes, you can train cats), so he meows at us when he needs the bathroom. Some people have serious problems with that level of responsibility but it is essential to understand things like that before you get involved. I could actually say the same about pretty much everything... I think my wife and I get along so well because we actually had each other worked out before we started anything!
OhNeil1969
Aquarium Advice Addict
That's the point I was getting at. We are really accomplices to the way things are. Furthermore, Tim was right. It's not just pet stores, companies all across the board are conducting business in this manner. I often think about things we pay for with which we're really not happy. Everywhere from the pet store to the local fast food restaurant, we keep paying for stuff and services that don't measure up. We can't expect things to change if we don't change ourselves.
I would encourage everyone to seek out a manager and complain about this kind of thing and also to send a letter to the CEO or Chairman of the Board of any of these chains who constantlyt have fish (or other animals) in unsanitary conditions.
However as others have said...it probably won't change much as they make more money on supplies than they do the animals themselves and almost see them as disposable.
Here is what might change things...get a few people together and picket outside the store for a few weekends. That takes a lot of effort and legwork and probably a call to the police department to make sure you understand the local laws...but it would certainly get attention from customers, local media and ultimately the store chain.
However as others have said...it probably won't change much as they make more money on supplies than they do the animals themselves and almost see them as disposable.
Here is what might change things...get a few people together and picket outside the store for a few weekends. That takes a lot of effort and legwork and probably a call to the police department to make sure you understand the local laws...but it would certainly get attention from customers, local media and ultimately the store chain.
redfisher1139
Aquarium Advice Freak
I couldn't agree more. There is a store like that on the north side of Orlando, where 95% of sales comes from fish. The few times I have been there, all the animals look great, and they really only have a few things in the store that are not alive.
six2sevenproductions
Aquarium Advice Activist
Bottom line is the money. Its always the money. Chains care about one thing and you guessed it, money. They dont care about fish or how theyre really treated. The losses are calculated into it all. They know minimum wage, non-caring employees are the ones working their departments but the profit is still there so they will too.
If you care i would tell the manager and if he cares he will get someone to take care of it. If you complain and get on his case, he will mosy likely shrug, it all depends on the manager in charge. Writing letters and czlling ceo does not get you anywhere. Do you really think the ceo of petsmart cares that there are a few floating fish. Remember again he might look at the profit numbers and still see the profit and not care.
Picketing might bring up awareness but so does the veterans on my street who carry the signs that read, "honk if you want to bring our troops home." most might beep but no one will do anything or can do anything.
If you care i would tell the manager and if he cares he will get someone to take care of it. If you complain and get on his case, he will mosy likely shrug, it all depends on the manager in charge. Writing letters and czlling ceo does not get you anywhere. Do you really think the ceo of petsmart cares that there are a few floating fish. Remember again he might look at the profit numbers and still see the profit and not care.
Picketing might bring up awareness but so does the veterans on my street who carry the signs that read, "honk if you want to bring our troops home." most might beep but no one will do anything or can do anything.
Tim Wheatley
Aquarium Advice Addict
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It might make a difference. I emailed the CEO and every executive email address I could find or guess from AT&T when I was lied to by their staff and treated badly upon moving here. I got what I wanted, probably simply because they didn't want me to annoy them anymore.
With the two main chain stores in the USA, however, I actually think they advise managers to do this kind of thing. They actually make more money from providing bad service (because the customer comes running back for each problem). It's the same as how some medications for fish will tell you to treat for a certain number of days when actually the problem can survive longer, it's so that you will see it working and go running back for more when it resurfaces.
With the two main chain stores in the USA, however, I actually think they advise managers to do this kind of thing. They actually make more money from providing bad service (because the customer comes running back for each problem). It's the same as how some medications for fish will tell you to treat for a certain number of days when actually the problem can survive longer, it's so that you will see it working and go running back for more when it resurfaces.
Okay, I'm just going to put my two cents in here because I actually work in a chain store and strongly dislike the practices. However, it would definitely need to come down to a corporate level as most employees and even some of the management don't have any kind of sway within the company and have repeatedly tried(and usually failed) to implement better practices when it comes to the welfare of the animal in question.
I can't speak for other stores as I'm not privy to what goes on in them.. however, the main issue in most corporate run stores is payroll. They are more concerned with how customer interaction is... but they are unwilling to offer the necessary hours to employees to provide this in conjunction with the care of the animals. I have even illegally stayed at work off of the clock to make sure things are done properly because I am kind of a pain in the behind about quality standards.
I am all for customer service, but I am more concerned about animal welfare. I would like to say there can be a healthy balance, but in my 4 years with this particular company I can say one always suffers for the other. As a result I have gotten increasingly bitter in the job as I try very hard to inform customers in what would be for the best interest of the animals. Namely fish as this is usually the section I work since I have my own tanks(a lot of the people I work with have never even owned a betta..but that's a whole different gripe..). However, people generally seem to be quite passionate about not listening. They want what they want when they want it and even an hour long chat sometimes has not convinced people otherwise. I talk people out of putting goldfish and koi and all manners of things from sharks to cichlids into bowls that we shouldn't even sell to begin with. This gets VERY time consuming. I talk and I talk and only a handful seem to listen or even care. I know I check the fish several times over the course of the day, QTing when necessary and removing the unfortunates when bad things befall them. But ONLY because I am willing to clock out and take care of the things I wasn't able to finish on my shift. To me.. this is sad. It shouldn't be necessary but it has become so.
I get griped at by family and come home hours later than I was scheduled to. But SOMEONE has to.
This is the price that is paid for convenience. People that would sooner flush them when problems arise being your main customers because they like the IDEA of having fish...
Not to mention the back rooms..
Unless you've worked in one, you can't imagine the crap that goes on there. I'm working with mostly people that are all significantly younger than me and can barely feed themselves much less medicate injured or sick animals. If the rooms were done properly everyday it would take several hours.. instead they seem to pop in and out of there within 30 minutes claiming to be done. And sadly this is what is expected of them. "Time is money".. so doing things halfheartedly saves them money and that's what it boils down to. I've been there long enough now that I don't put up with the crap and will take my sweet time doing things properly even if I get glared at for it.
When I finally quit working there.. there will be some very interesting documentation. Until then I bide my time but hope that the blame isn't just placed on the employees. Some of them only suffer from not being educated about HOW to do these things or how to best care for fish. I only wish more of them would be incited into action.
By the way, the system IS all connected so buying fish from a tank that appears healthy won't matter. The water all interchanges in the sump and then is run through the UV and filtration. Our UV was down for going on 4 months before they decided to fix it and resulted in very large loss of life spanning that time period.
Sorry, I know that was a really long post.. I'm shutting up now.
I can't speak for other stores as I'm not privy to what goes on in them.. however, the main issue in most corporate run stores is payroll. They are more concerned with how customer interaction is... but they are unwilling to offer the necessary hours to employees to provide this in conjunction with the care of the animals. I have even illegally stayed at work off of the clock to make sure things are done properly because I am kind of a pain in the behind about quality standards.
I am all for customer service, but I am more concerned about animal welfare. I would like to say there can be a healthy balance, but in my 4 years with this particular company I can say one always suffers for the other. As a result I have gotten increasingly bitter in the job as I try very hard to inform customers in what would be for the best interest of the animals. Namely fish as this is usually the section I work since I have my own tanks(a lot of the people I work with have never even owned a betta..but that's a whole different gripe..). However, people generally seem to be quite passionate about not listening. They want what they want when they want it and even an hour long chat sometimes has not convinced people otherwise. I talk people out of putting goldfish and koi and all manners of things from sharks to cichlids into bowls that we shouldn't even sell to begin with. This gets VERY time consuming. I talk and I talk and only a handful seem to listen or even care. I know I check the fish several times over the course of the day, QTing when necessary and removing the unfortunates when bad things befall them. But ONLY because I am willing to clock out and take care of the things I wasn't able to finish on my shift. To me.. this is sad. It shouldn't be necessary but it has become so.
I get griped at by family and come home hours later than I was scheduled to. But SOMEONE has to.
This is the price that is paid for convenience. People that would sooner flush them when problems arise being your main customers because they like the IDEA of having fish...
Not to mention the back rooms..
Unless you've worked in one, you can't imagine the crap that goes on there. I'm working with mostly people that are all significantly younger than me and can barely feed themselves much less medicate injured or sick animals. If the rooms were done properly everyday it would take several hours.. instead they seem to pop in and out of there within 30 minutes claiming to be done. And sadly this is what is expected of them. "Time is money".. so doing things halfheartedly saves them money and that's what it boils down to. I've been there long enough now that I don't put up with the crap and will take my sweet time doing things properly even if I get glared at for it.
When I finally quit working there.. there will be some very interesting documentation. Until then I bide my time but hope that the blame isn't just placed on the employees. Some of them only suffer from not being educated about HOW to do these things or how to best care for fish. I only wish more of them would be incited into action.
By the way, the system IS all connected so buying fish from a tank that appears healthy won't matter. The water all interchanges in the sump and then is run through the UV and filtration. Our UV was down for going on 4 months before they decided to fix it and resulted in very large loss of life spanning that time period.
Sorry, I know that was a really long post.. I'm shutting up now.
OhNeil1969
Aquarium Advice Addict
Thanks Khalix for giving us your perspective on the subject. I always knew that there would be some dedicated people suffering in silence while working at places like you described. Stay strong and thanks from those of us that care!
GuppyLover
Aquarium Advice FINatic
My Petco is exactly the same. I never even buy from petco's because of this. I've complained to the employee's and all I got was "We'll get on that right away." when they sit there talking about last nights party. A friend of mine went with me to petco and I saw a female rat viciously attacking another. I told an employee and she said she would move it, I came back later that night and they were taking her gory body out of the cage. I felt horrible for the poor thing, if they would have cared and taken her out into another cage she would still be alive.
It's mostly sad because I don't even shop at my own store. I get my fish from a guy down the road.
PS: We have the same 60 gallon tank!
OhNeil1969
Aquarium Advice Addict
I just read one of the similar threads at the bottom of this screen (the one posted by Jnam). The manager at the pet store Jnam shopped at actually threw him out of the store for telling a new aquarist that they should wait and cycle their tank before buying fish. It makes for a good read. It might even be funny if it weren't for the loss of life perpetuated by this kind of system.
I wish some of my customers would do that. I swear people think I'm lying to them or something. One lady even said "I just don't think you feel like working and bagging my fish." She was buying the tank at the same time and didn't understand why it would be an issue. I'm just automatically lazy.
/lounge
To be fair we only have two small fish stores in my area who are worth going to. There are 3 or 4 where the people running them just sit around with their feet on the counter and text or chat to coworkers.. so I guess it's not just the corporations. Some people just lack a basic work ethic.
/lounge
To be fair we only have two small fish stores in my area who are worth going to. There are 3 or 4 where the people running them just sit around with their feet on the counter and text or chat to coworkers.. so I guess it's not just the corporations. Some people just lack a basic work ethic.
Homedog98
Aquarium Advice Addict
I have both a petco and a petsmart. Both aren't too great. The petco has ok tanks and ok advice, but I think they try and sell you more then you need. The petsmart has horrible tank conditions and horrible advice! They told me two rainbow sharks would do fine in a ten gallon! Then I went home and figured out just how wrong they were. The petco also is good because they don't let you buy fish until you've cycled your tank.
Tim Wheatley
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That is a really interesting insight. I guess if you get enough customers who don't want to listen it's hard to keep going through the same speech with everyone.I wish some of my customers would do that. I swear people think I'm lying to them or something. One lady even said "I just don't think you feel like working and bagging my fish." She was buying the tank at the same time and didn't understand why it would be an issue. I'm just automatically lazy.
/lounge
To be fair we only have two small fish stores in my area who are worth going to. There are 3 or 4 where the people running them just sit around with their feet on the counter and text or chat to coworkers.. so I guess it's not just the corporations. Some people just lack a basic work ethic.
My local stores are completely mixed. There's one of each (petco and petsmart) in each direction which is good and bad. So it's definitely nothing to do with a particular chain being good or bad. I've bought fish from the good ones and have been fine with them, but I us my iPhone for advice now rather than the staff...
mwilliams
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Our Petco's here in Houston Texas are the same. About 99% of them quite carring Saltwater Fish because no one new how to take care of them and the tanks were nasty. If the manager threw me out of a a store giving a fellow aquarist advise then it would go to both the Corp. Office and BBB ASAP. At least Petsmart is not as bad and sometimes they might even be lucky to have an employee that knows their fish stuff... And their tanks are pretty clean.
subliminalanarchy
Aquarium Advice Activist
I work at a chain store and get the same responses.
The aquatics department gets about 30 hours a week devoted to it (pretty much just me). In that amount of time we have to feed the fish, take out the dead fish, algae scrub 60 10 gallon tanks twice a week, acclimate and release hundreds of new fish, do over 200 gallons of water changes and gravel vacuuming, cart runs, help customers, open and close the back rooms and all small animals, help out on the register, and make sure the store is 'faced'.
I actually know what I'm doing so I keep the section looking pretty good but it's impossible to keep there from being a few dead fish in the tanks from time to time. Especially when the fish are all in overstocked tanks, have the lights on for 12 hours a day, and most of them have only been in the store for a few weeks. And the tanks are all hooked up into one system, and the medications they give us don't work.
On the flip side:
95% of the people who buy fish don't have a clue what they're doing. I tell every single customer about cycling their tank before putting fish in and maybe 1 out of 10 actually listens to me completely.
If I say you can fit like 4 small fish in that aquarium, they buy 5 medium fish. If I say do 20% water changes weekly, most people do them monthly. Half of the time I tell customers that they're not doing enough water changes they act like I just personally made they're life more difficult. If I say these fish like to be in schools, they buy 2 of each kind.
I can't begin to say how many customers come to me saying they do one large water change every 6 months or so. I tell them that's why there fish keep dying and they just go ahead and buy new one's acting like I don't know what I'm talking about. Alot of people think topping off water from evaporation counts as a water change. Half of the people who come in have never gravel vac'd their tank.
Alot of people buy those small two gallon aquariums for their kids or whatever, and then I get to tell them they can't fit any fish in there besides a betta. Most mothers don't like to hear that and get the fish anyway.
Lmao I get so many dirty looks trying to do the right thing. It feels like arguing with a brick wall and gets very tiring. Most fish owners are just as bad as the corporations. It's really making me question the morality of this hobby.
I guess that would be the counter perspective of the employees who actually know what they're doing and try. Done ranting... for now.
The aquatics department gets about 30 hours a week devoted to it (pretty much just me). In that amount of time we have to feed the fish, take out the dead fish, algae scrub 60 10 gallon tanks twice a week, acclimate and release hundreds of new fish, do over 200 gallons of water changes and gravel vacuuming, cart runs, help customers, open and close the back rooms and all small animals, help out on the register, and make sure the store is 'faced'.
I actually know what I'm doing so I keep the section looking pretty good but it's impossible to keep there from being a few dead fish in the tanks from time to time. Especially when the fish are all in overstocked tanks, have the lights on for 12 hours a day, and most of them have only been in the store for a few weeks. And the tanks are all hooked up into one system, and the medications they give us don't work.
On the flip side:
95% of the people who buy fish don't have a clue what they're doing. I tell every single customer about cycling their tank before putting fish in and maybe 1 out of 10 actually listens to me completely.
If I say you can fit like 4 small fish in that aquarium, they buy 5 medium fish. If I say do 20% water changes weekly, most people do them monthly. Half of the time I tell customers that they're not doing enough water changes they act like I just personally made they're life more difficult. If I say these fish like to be in schools, they buy 2 of each kind.
I can't begin to say how many customers come to me saying they do one large water change every 6 months or so. I tell them that's why there fish keep dying and they just go ahead and buy new one's acting like I don't know what I'm talking about. Alot of people think topping off water from evaporation counts as a water change. Half of the people who come in have never gravel vac'd their tank.
Alot of people buy those small two gallon aquariums for their kids or whatever, and then I get to tell them they can't fit any fish in there besides a betta. Most mothers don't like to hear that and get the fish anyway.
Lmao I get so many dirty looks trying to do the right thing. It feels like arguing with a brick wall and gets very tiring. Most fish owners are just as bad as the corporations. It's really making me question the morality of this hobby.
I guess that would be the counter perspective of the employees who actually know what they're doing and try. Done ranting... for now.
I actually was thinking the same thing. Although yes, because the stores are selling the fish, they should inform their customers. But on the flip side, the customers need to be responsible in their purchases. I made my mistakes early like everyone else and I blame myself, not chain stores.
Homedog98
Aquarium Advice Addict
Same here, but I still got a load of bs from where I got my fish.
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