HELP, betta has ICK, doesn't look so good

[michaelg210]

he is very lethargic, normally, he is almost always on the move....

all i could find at walmart, only place open, was Ick Clear from Jungle Fish Care and

Wardley Essentials, Ick Away....

 

[michaelg210]

Read Aquarium Salt helps, 1 teaspoon per every 2.5 gallons, which I did, (added 4 tsp to the 10G tank), however, i doubt I am supposed to do this daily, (see below)

Don't know if I should still add the Jungle Fish Care Ick Clear tablet as well.

TREATMENT:
Ick is a parasite. Because ick is contagious, it is preferable to treat the whole tank when one fish is found to have it. Ick is temperature sensitive: Leave your betta in the community tank and raise temperature to 85 F and add one drop of Aquarisol per gal every day until cured. It will only take a few days to get rid of the pesky little parasites. The reason is that the parasites are sensitive to the heat and at 85F they become free swimming (detach themselves from betta’s skin and go for a swim in the water which contains the Aquarisol. Aquarisol then kills them).

questions on the above (TREATMENT):

How long would I leave the tank at 85? One Day, Several Days?

I will try to pick up some aquarisol tomorrow, but don't want to use the Ick Clear and then add Aquarisol (if I can find it) and be mixing the meds doing more harm than good to the fish....

anyone?

 

[saa5886]

I'm not too familiar with bettas, but I did just experience a horrible ich scare that ive just now gotten under control. I can tell you what I used that helped but I dont have a betta, I have mollies.
I have been using salt and a broad spectrum med called Lifeguard and its made by tetra. I had tried some other tablet but it did nothing..
Lifeguard actually treats parasites and bacteria...you cant go wrong. As for heat, I dont even own a heater. we keep our thermostat in the house at 74, the tank is naturally 75 constantly...it fluctuates one degree at night but that wont hurt the fish....so I havent tried the heat thing but the salt and drugs seem to work for me.

 

[dkpate]

You can turn the heat up gradually to 86, and it will get rid of the ich. It speeds up the life cycle, and the ich can't reproduce in that temp. Leave temp up for 10 days. Remember, it will look worse before it gets better.
If you use meds, remember with bettas you can only use half doses. If you ever get any meds that have specific directions for tetras, do the same for bettas.
I have used QuICK Cure, and it worked for my betta, but it stains everything blue.

 

[michaelg210]

86?

You can turn the heat up gradually to 86, and it will get rid of the ich. It speeds up the life cycle, and the ich can't reproduce in that temp. Leave temp up for 10 days. Remember, it will look worse before it gets better.
If you use meds, remember with bettas you can only use half doses. If you ever get any meds that have specific directions for tetras, do the same for bettas.
I have used QuICK Cure, and it worked for my betta, but it stains everything blue.

ok, I am currently at 85, i will crank it up another notch, then. Using Aauari-sol at 12 drops per 10 Gs.... will double check bottle for tetra specific dosage...

Have been maintaining that level of dosage and planned on doing so for 14 days, doing a 20 percent water change. Have also been gravel vacuuming frequently... betta looks somewhat stressed but better, and mobile again and eating well.

Dose once every 24 hours for 3 days. If needed, treatment can be repeated after a 20% water change. For freshwater aquarium use.

​

thanks
mjg

 

[dkpate]

Don't use the meds for 14 days. The package says dose for 3 days, so 14 days would be WAYYY too much.
When I treated my betta, I did a 50% pwc every day before the next dose.

 

[michaelg210]

dosage

Don't use the meds for 14 days. The package says dose for 3 days, so 14 days would be WAYYY too much.
When I treated my betta, I did a 50% pwc every day before the next dose.

ok, have been having trouble finding accurate how to dose this medication. Package also says can be re-treated after a 20% water change, so not too sure.

As I understand it, treatment heat or otherwise, needs to run thru a 14 day cycle to kill off all life cycles / reproduction. (some places show 6 weeks, on the temp / treatment).

The heat theoretically should kill them anyway.

He is doing much better, most of the ick is gone, he still has various salt-like grains, especially on his tail / fins....

I wish I could find better info on this...

 

[dkpate]

Ich has to go through a cycle, and you can only kill them in their free swimming stage. If there is still ich on the little guy, then you are still in the first stage. Ich will be on the fish, fall off the fish and form a cyst in the substrate, then burst into about 2000 more free swimming ich parasites. You can only kill them when they are free swimming.
Turning up the heat speeds up the life cycle, making everything happen faster, which means that everything happens faster. Instead of it taking a week to happen, it will only take a few days. I hope that makes some sense.
The heat on 86* does not allow the ich to reproduce, and leaving the heat up for 10 days should do the trick. You should do some gravel vacs also, to try and get the cysts before they hatch.

 

[michaelg210]

Aquari-sol- for treating ich / ick, better instructions

Don't use the meds for 14 days. The package says dose for 3 days, so 14 days would be WAYYY too much.
When I treated my betta, I did a 50% pwc every day before the next dose.

Label and directions for this product, Aquari-Sol, are not very clear.

After numerous searches I eventually stumbled upon the below web site which gives some information about the manufacturer:

DailyMed: About DailyMed

There is also a bar code on the product pic, which if contacting the manufacturer, will be needed (or at least very helpful) as there are different versions of this product. [bar code last 5 digits are 00403]

ACTIVE INGREDIENT

Soluble Copper Salts


Distributed by:

Sergeant's Pet Care Products, Inc., Omaha NE 68130

www.sentrypetcare.com
Have a question, comment or suggestion about any of our products? Contact Sentry by mail at the following mailing address:
Sentry Pet Care Products, Inc.
Consumer Affairs Department
P.O. Box 540399, Omaha, NE 68154-0399
Or call us at: 1-800-224-PETS (7387)

Send us an email: WEB MAIL FORM PROVIDED


contacting the above consumer affairs number provides an option for speaking to a consumer affair specialist. Select option 2 for medical emergencies or follow up of a med emergency. Select option 9 to speak to a pet live product specialist reregarding questions on this product. I was able to get ahold of someone at approximately 1730 hours CST (5:30 pm).

In this case I was able to confirm it is indeed ok to administer Aquari-Sol to the tank at the dosage of 12 drops per 10 gallons daily, until the fish is cured, (though the bottle reccommends a 20 % pwc after the third day and repeat treatment if necessary). Additional it was confirmed that when used according to directions, Aquari-Sol has not long-term or harmful effects on the fish.

Due to trying to decimate the tomont population with frequent gravel vacs, a third day water change is really irrelevant. (for one of the more simplified explainations of the parasite and its reproduction /replication cycle click on the link below)

Freshwater Ich

I hope this will save time and effort for other newbies such as myself with their first encounter of this horrible disease which will kill your fish if not treated quickly and properly (due to the unfathomable rate in which the parasite replicates in a tank and is able to find a host).

In my case, (and as stated, I am a newbie) Aquari-Sol is working for me. After just 3 days of treatement, most of the sugar-like granules are gone from the betta and he is eating well and moving about the tank again.

The aquarium has been heated to 86 degrees and aeration has been increased, (though the betta does not like the current, so if you have a betta, make sure to have a place he can hide and rest, i.e. an overturned half log is one of the things i have).

I am continuing to use Aqui-Sol, and plan to do so for a 14 day total duration to ensure all of the nasty little buggers and their offspring / life cycle(s) are gone.

 

[HN1]

I personally would have stuck to heat & salt. You should not need to raise the heat while using the "med" unless the directions say to raise it. I think you may be combining suggestions on one treatment (heat + salt) with those on the bottle. I'm confused about half the time though so I could be wrong. Since you have chosen to use aquarisol, I would stay to the directions and deal with anything relative to the copper later.

 

[michaelg210]

directions

I personally would have stuck to heat & salt. You should not need to raise the heat while using the "med" unless the directions say to raise it. I think you may be combining suggestions on one treatment (heat + salt) with those on the bottle. I'm confused about half the time though so I could be wrong. Since you have chosen to use aquarisol, I would stay to the directions and deal with anything relative to the copper later.

sorry, guess i omitted that part, yes, directions state 85, i have at 86 due to the supposed fact that the parasite cannot reproduce at that temp.

However, I have also read of a strain, i believe in FL where the parasite was able to survive at temps of 90 + so....

anyway, been told too much salt no good for the betta, but did not research it.

 

[HN1]

Follow the directions and stay on course. The chances of you having that strain are very slim fortunately. I'm not a fan of salt in FW at all other than the treatment of ich so I definitely appreciate the reluctance to use it. I've been fortunate and have only had to deal with ich a few times and never with a betta so take my posts with a grain of salt (insert pun here) and hope someone with more direct experience can chime in with details.

 

[dkpate]

The higher temps will speed up the life cycle of the ich, therefore the meds should work faster. The meds only kill the ich in the free swimming stage, and the faster you can get it off the fish, the better off it will be.
I worry about using it for too long, since bettas are actually sensitive, and you are usually only supposed to use half doses with most meds.
I hope you don't have plans for any snails in the future, since there is copper in the meds. Snails + copper= bad.
You don't really need to add a bubble wand, since bettas are labrynth breathers, but if you feel better with it in there, and your betta still has a calm place to rest, you should be fine.

 

[HN1]

I understand the parasite and its life stages. Some chemicals will only work as designed within the correct temperature band. If using a chemical or "med", follow the directions. JMO

 

[michaelg210]

Thank you for your help and advice

The higher temps will speed up the life cycle of the ich, therefore the meds should work faster. The meds only kill the ich in the free swimming stage, and the faster you can get it off the fish, the better off it will be.
I worry about using it for too long, since bettas are actually sensitive, and you are usually only supposed to use half doses with most meds.
I hope you don't have plans for any snails in the future, since there is copper in the meds. Snails + copper= bad.
You don't really need to add a bubble wand, since bettas are labrynth breathers, but if you feel better with it in there, and your betta still has a calm place to rest, you should be fine.

I understand the parasite and its life stages. Some chemicals will only work as designed within the correct temperature band. If using a chemical or "med", follow the directions. JMO

I think what I am doing is the best route based on the information I have. There is no information that is betta specific or even tetra specific on this med, which is why I called the mfgr. It is indeed frustrating.

IMHO, 86 based on what you are telling me should preclude reproduction. That being the case, the Aquari-Sol would not be necessary. But since the parasite is only suceptible to the meds when during the 1 day free swimming stage seeking its host, the meds are necessary (?). If only one survives to restart the process, I will be back to where I started. That is my thinking anyway.

I do not know anything about copper and it's effects, though I assume it is toxic, but have not had time to research it.

I am assuming / hoping (?) a 1 degree difference in temp, 85 to 86 will not adversely affect med.

No plans for snails, do not want them, ask HN1.... he dropped my plants in a puffer tank to ensure no hitchhikers.

On the bubble wand, i have lowered the water level and am getting nice big bubbles from the filter into the water. The mini filter with aeration was driving the betta nuts, so I turned it off.

Was actually going to look for a bubble wand / stone / whatever tonight, cause I plan on keeping the tank at 81 - 82 after this to prevent another outbreak (supposedly that works). Do you not think I need bubble wand / stone if keeping the tank at this temp?

Either way, you have me concerned about using the meds for so long, but again, the mfgr said not a problem. Wish I knew someone with a chemistry background, as the contact at Aquari-Sol did sound kind of like one of those walmart employees that, when asked a question, looks at the packet and tells you what it says.... (like i can't read)........

One last thing, I do have a white film building up on the walls of the tank, which I have been scrubbing. We have very hard water here in San Antonio, as our water comes from an underground aquifier.
(The Edwards Aquifer is intensely faulted and fractured carbonate limestone )

Is this possibly just hard water buildup or is it the parasite, and if so, should I be scrubbing it?

 

[dkpate]

I also have hard water, in mine it's calcium and I just use one of those razor blades from a utility knife to clean it.
My bettas tanks are at 80-81* all the time, and I have no bubble wand. They take air from the surface, so they don't need too much in the water.
You are right when you say if you use the heat, you probably don't need the meds. Ich cannot reproduce in those temps, so you would be fine. Just remember that you will need to put new carbon in the filter to get all of the meds out when you are not using them anymore.
90% of the information I have learned and given out was learned from a lady who has been breeding and keeping bettas for 30+ years.
My brother and his family live near SA! They are actually in Helotes though.

 

[michaelg210]

i found some really good sites on copper, one of which states copper cannot be removed via carbon filter:

How do I remove Copper?
A common misconception about Copper is that it can be removed from the water with activated charcoal. It can only be removed by either doing water changes, or by using E.D.T.A. (Ethylene Diamine Tetra Acidic Acid) to chelate it out of the water. Remember folks, there is no such thing as a "Chelated Copper Solution", as "Chelated" means "Inactivated". The proper terminology would be "Sequestered Copper Solution".

All About Copper Sulfate
Copper sulphate - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki