Help me! I'm floundering with our new setup.

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dobiedawn

Aquarium Advice Newbie
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
9
Location
Mid-Michigan
My soon to be 7 year old daughter has decided she would like a fish tank for her birthday. Great for me as I have always wanted an aquarium myself, but never found the time to do the research on setup. I am a bit uncertain on what to buy to fully prepare the tank.

I have found a kit that has a 29 gallon tank, 30" hood with fl. bulb, Whisper 30 Power filter & Bio-Bag cartridge, 100 watt heater, net, thermometer, and water conditioner. Other than gravel, decorations, and fish, what else do I need? Several books I have read recently recommend an undergravel filter. Our local high-end pet store does not see a need for these. Also, we have somewhat hard well water. Is this ok to use in our tank setup or should I buy water from the store? Another book mentioned using a condensation tray. Could anyone please enlighten me on this? Any recommendations for easy fish to start with? Obviously, with my daughter being 7 she would love to have something colorful (like the saltwater clownfish). The Dalmatian mollies we have seen look like nice options to start out with. We are basically novices at this, but want to do it right and not end up with a bunch of dead fish.
 
First off your going to get pounded by the anti UGF people but I have one with 2 powerheads in my 29 gallon its been going for over 3 years with no problems. I have always used UGF's in every tank I have ever had and have never had a problem. The #1 thing water changes weekly and vaccuming.

I would find fish that like the type of water you have and not mess with changing pH right now. When looking for fish make sure there are no diseased or dead fish from the place your buying from.

Mollies would work pretty good with that kind of water.

cycling the tank will be your biggest hurdle to start. once you get past that do weekly water changes and vaccum weekly and you should be fine.

any how good luck!!!
 
Thanks for the input. What kind of vacuum is the best to use? I have seen that the Pythons maybe look like good options. Also, what percentage of water do you change weekly?

As for cycling the tank, does Bio Spira work very well in getting that started?
 
FancyGuppyGuy said:
First off your going to get pounded by the anti UGF people but I have one with 2 powerheads in my 29 gallon its been going for over 3 years with no problems.

Blasphemer! Fetch the stake and torches!

I used to use UGFs....but mostly back when I felt that there was not anything readily available that was better. There are two main problems with UGFs...they are a bit limited as to capacity, and they are a serious pain in the backside to maintain. For a beginner, I usually suggest one of the Hagen AquaClear series of 'hang-on-tank' powerfilters, which are easy to maintain, provide excellent water movement (anywhere from 100 gallons per hour to 500 gph, depending on model and setting). As far as powerfilters go, the AquaClear line is good-quality, dependible, and inexpensive.

You may do better by purchasing a 30 gallon tank, a flourescent canopy, an AquaClear 300 filter, a good-quality submersible heater (such as an Ebo Jager...150-200W), a thermometer (get the glass sort, they are far more accurate and relaible). Water conditioner is not needed with well-water unless you add chlorine to your water.

Bio-spira is an excellent 'instant cycle' product, but make sure your LFS has it refrigerated, and double-check they expiry date before buying it.

With a 30 gallon tank, you will probably get the most enjoyment out of a tropical community tank consisting of tetras, guppies, etc....there is a lot of colour to be had in such a tank, and the fish are typically inexpensive and easy to care for (and quite hardy).
 
First off, welcome to AA !!! !!! !!! :mrgreen:

It sounds like your starter kit is a pretty good one. All the equipment that came with it sounds good and pretty adequate for the job. I have no personal experience with Whisper filters but it is a reputable brand so I would think it would be fine. In a tank as small as a 29 gal, there is really no need to add a second filter (i.e. an undergravel one). They were in vogue a few years back--probably about the time the book(s) you were reading were published--but overall enthusiasm for them has waned a bit in recent years, for reasons too long & complex to get into here. They still have their proponents, but given the fact you already have a perfectly fine filter that came with your tank setup, I would suggest saving money on buying an ug filter.

Yes, you will need gravel. A good rule of thumb when trying to figure out how much to buy is one pound of gravel per gallon. Most any gravel they sell in a good pet or aquarium store will do. Personally I would shy away from the gravels that are too wild colored, as I think in the end it distracts from the beauty of the fish, but if this is for a 7-year girl old she might very well want the hot pink or electric purple gravel...and who's to say that's not perfect for her. :)

I've never even heard of a condensation tray, so I really don't think that's anything to worry about.

I wouldn't worry about your water. One thing to consider is that if your pet store is anywhere near where you live, then the water they are putting in their tanks is the same water you are putting in yours. If it works for them, it should work for you. :wink: If you buy a water hardness testing kit (which will test general hardness, gH, and carbonate hardness, kH) and post those numbers here, we can try to suggest fish that would be particularly suited (or unsuited). But in general, most aquarium fish can be very adaptable to wide ranges of pH and hardness, as long as your keep them steady. Having wide fluctuations in pH or hardness (usually caused by well-intentioned but misguided attempts to alter these values through chemicals) is a recipe for a fish disaster.

Speaking of testing kits, you absolutely must get a good freshwater testing kit that will test for pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Don't get one that uses paper strips, get one that uses reagents and test tubes. It is absolutely critical to know what is going on in your tank chemically, especially during the first several weeks when the tank is trying to "cycle." Bio-Spira is said to be nothing short of a miracle for "instantly" cycling a tank, assuming you get a good batch. That can sometimes be hard. While many of the people on this forum have had amazing success, I have tried it twice--once was a "partial" success, the other more or less a failure. But considering it only costs around $12, it is definitely a worthwhile investment. Note that you add the Bio-Spira simultaneously with adding the first batch of fish, not before.

As for water changing, the Python is a product people rave about. I haven't yet gotten to the point of being convinced it is worth the cost, so I use a good ol' fashioned syphon and bucket. How much, and how often, you change depends a lot upon the chemistry of your tank; early on if your tank is not yet cycled, ammonia et al. are gonig to be building up and so water changing needs to be more frequent than down the road once your tank is fully cycled. You might get a variety of opinions but in a cycled tank, changing 10-20% once a week is a reasonable expectation. If your tank is lightly stocked, 20% every other week actually might suffice.

Mollies are great fish, especially those dalmation ones, but one thing to be aware of is that mollies like a higher salt concentration than most other freshwater fish...in fact, they like it almost brackish. That is fine if you are interested in having *only* mollies, but if you are wanting other fish as well, it may cause problems. Mollies can survive in regular freshwater, but it is not ideal, and they tend to be more prone to disease. There are a lot of great fish out there. For a 7-year old, I would think fancy guppies would be a good possibility--they are very brightly colored, come with great variation from reds, yellows, blues, spotted, you name it. Platies and swordtails are also quite colorful, and all of these fish (like mollies) are livebearers...which means if you have males & females together and they are alive, they will be making more babies than you will know what to do with. Although the females tend to be a little less striking (especially when dealing with guppies), you should really buy them at a ratio of 2-3 females for every male; if there is just one female and one male, the stress of the male constantly wanting to mate can cause problems for a lone female.

Other colorful fish, which would fit in a community tank of the size you have, would include a school of any of the smaller tetras (neons are beautiful but not the hardiest fish in the world; I would not suggest attempting to cycle a tank with neons), any of the smaller barbs (cherry barbs stay relatively small, do best in a male/female or male/2females group, and the red on the males can be striking), or a single (or a male/female pair) dwarf gourami. Down the road, when you have an established tank and pristine water conditions, you could consider moving to something like German Blue Rams, which IMO can rival any saltwater fish out there for sheer beauty.

Also, a tank as large as a 29 gal will always benefit from some sort of bottom dweller. I would suggest getting a school of 5-6 cory catfish. They are the cutest little buggers in the world, very energetic, and they will do a great job of cleaning up any food that makes it to the gravel. They are schooling fish so don't get just one or two, as they will not be nearly as happy. And though you might be tempted to "mix & match" (there are ~ 160 varities of corys), they do *best* when the school is all of the same species. They are fabulous and so much fun, and get along with basically any other fish you could put in a community tank. Most get to about 2" adult size; if you can find pygmy cories, they only get to about 1" as adults and are cuter still--if you can find them, a school of 8-10 would mean non-stop antics in the bottom of your tank. :D

In summary, really the biggest hurdle to setting up a new tank is cycling. 98% of all problems new aquarium owners have are problems that are either directly, or indirectly, a result of poor water chemistry due to the tank not being cycled. Once you are over that hurdle, the sky is the limit.

Feel free to ask any follow-up questions you may have! And good luck! :p
 
JohnPaul said:
I have no personal experience with Whisper filters but it is a reputable brand so I would think it would be fine.

Unfortunately, Whispers use a very skimpy cartridge of filter-pad wrapped carbon....very little actual media...which is why I prefer ACs.

I've never even heard of a condensation tray, so I really don't think that's anything to worry about.

That is an oddly complicated term for glass top/lid.

One thing to consider is that if your pet store is anywhere near where you live, then the water they are putting in their tanks is the same water you are putting in yours.

I doubt that the LFS shares the same well, but I concur that the water is unlikely something that requires concern.

Speaking of testing kits, you absolutely must get a good freshwater testing kit that will test for pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Don't get one that uses paper strips, get one that uses reagents and test tubes. It is absolutely critical to know what is going on in your tank chemically, especially during the first several weeks when the tank is trying to "cycle."

Good catch...test kit slipped my mind.

As for water changing, the Python is a product people rave about. I haven't yet gotten to the point of being convinced it is worth the cost, so I use a good ol' fashioned syphon and bucket.

Again, I agree...I have about 2400 gallons of tanks, and I still 'bucket brigade'.

Rather than quoting the whole bit that JohnPaul wrote about stocking, I will say that I agree....but do be cautious of mollies...many of my adults are between 4"-6"...they are big fish.
 
cycling is key

I use UGFs and power filters together. I'm not sure the UGF is necessary but I feel like it may be helping. I'd focus on cycling the tank. Once you've got the tank set up the way you want (filters, heaters, gravel, plants, and so on) I'd get some gravel from an established fish tank at the pet store and put it in your tank. After a week or so I'd add some good cycling fish. These are generally very hardy fish that can thrive in poor water conditions. I used 6 redeye tetras in my 29 gallon, but I've heard others using zebra danios or other hardy fish. Let them stay in for a week or two before adding any new fish. A good heater should be purchased. I purchased a Rena Cal 200 heater that you can kinda dial-in the temperature. It is glass and is rated for a tank over twice the size of mine and is very accurate. A good thermometer will help too. You must be able to test water nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia levels during the cycling period and while fish are in the tank. I didn't start out doing that but I found that it helped explain fish illnesses. Get sinking food for bottom feeders and flakes for the others. I have about 4 - 5 different types of foods that I feed my fish so as to provide some variety in their diet.
 
Re: cycling is key

dax29 said:
I use UGFs and power filters together. I'm not sure the UGF is necessary but I feel like it may be helping.

It will help a whole lot more if you put a couple of small powerheads on the uplift tubes instead of using airstones.
 
I think I purchased the exact kit you are describing. It worked great but I added more filtration (not necessary, I have a tendency to overdo things) and I added a bigger, easier-to-use heater (mainly to fight ich).
 
Just to clarify, dobiedawn, by well water do you mean your own private well (on your property) or do you mean you get your water from your municipal supply and that is drawn from wells? If it is municiple well water you must add a water conditioner, as it is likely the water is chlorinated at some point. And even if you use your own well, I would still suggest water conditioner--especially one that binds heavy metals. Personally I use Tetra's "AquaSafe" and have never had any problems.

And I am thankful for the correction from Toirtis regarding the Whisper filters. When I bought my 29 gal starter kit from PetSmart it came with a TopFin filter that sounds a lot like the whisper one. Ugh! I had it for about 2 weeks and couldn't take it anymore, I took it out and started using an AquaClear hob filter. Much nicer, much quieter, and more customizable...I am very pleased with it.

Also, I forgot to mention, but I think most people here would recommend you add a small amount of aquarium salt (not table salt, and not marine salt) to even a straight freshwater tank. I put in salt at an amount of 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons.
 
my only 2 bits is that I too bought a kit to start. (onsale at the petstore) then I researched. I ended up replacing the filter with an aquaclear (verry nice filter) and the heater (submersible). Like someone said earlier you may be better off buying everything seperate. Didn't read the really long reply so if I said something someone else said ingore me.
 
We have our own private well as we live in the boondocks. It is quite full of rust even though we have a water softener.
 
JohnPaul: You mentioned 5-6 cory catfish as good ideas for bottom dwellers. Realistically, once I get the tank up and running and cycled properly, what is the ideal amount of fish to have in a tank of this size? As you recommended in an earlier post, we will probably stick to platies, swordtails, guppies, tetras, or zebra danios. Are angel fish good to have in a community tank? My daughter likes the looks of them, but someone had told me that they had an angel fish that started eating their other fish.
 
general rule of thumb, 1" of fish for every gallon of water...so with your 29 gal, 29" of fish...very slightly more or any amount less is fine...remember this number refers to the adult size of fish...
 
Gordinho80 said:
general rule of thumb, 1" of fish for every gallon of water...so with your 29 gal, 29" of fish...very slightly more or any amount less is fine...remember this number refers to the adult size of fish...

And only after the tank is cycled, and has an adequate biologic filter capacity by slowly adding stock to get to that number!

Welcome to AA!

Platies are nice and colorful, and hardy enough to start out with. Zebra danios are tough and provide lots of movement, but little color.

I prefer HOB or canister filters, never liked the uplift tubes of a UGF, but had a number of tanks with UGF without problems (that is, until you tear it down and see all the muck under it, yuck!)

And if you are going to cycle with fish (what, did I miss the fishless cycle lecture in the previous posts? :D ) Start off with only about 5 small hardy fish, and see how it goes for a few weeks (by testing) before you add any more. A good Bio-spira start would enable you to add more right away.

For a lengthy lecture on my opinions of cycling with fish, you can check out: http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0017.htm

Glad you are getting into the hobby!

edit: oops didn't read down far enough again, you had the whole cycle thing covered! Yeah, angels can go with platies and danios. Buy them small and raise them right!
 
Oh- and Estes gravel is the cleanest, best gravel I have ever bought. If you have a choice, choose Estes'
 
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