High ammonia level
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What is your ammonia level?
Are you dosing ammonia? If so, how?
What bacteria product are you trying? Most of the time these products dont do anything and are a waste of money.
2 weeks isnt very long, it can take months to cycle a tank.
Are you dosing ammonia? If so, how?
What bacteria product are you trying? Most of the time these products dont do anything and are a waste of money.
2 weeks isnt very long, it can take months to cycle a tank.
I haven’t added any ammonia. That’s what’s so weird. I’ve been dosing with a product called seed by seachem. The high ammonia is just killing the bacteria. I’ve done partial and full water changes and it still spikes back up. I also tested my tap water and the ammonia level is at zero. I’m stumped and so is my local fish store.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
If your tap water has chloramines in it, SOME ammonia may show up on a test but to get an accurate reading, you need to break the chlorine/ ammonia bond and then test the ammonia level. With an API liquid test, you will be getting a reading that includes ammonia and ammonium ( created by using the water conditioner.) Test kits like Seachem and Hanna and some others can test for just free ammonia ( NH3) a.k.a. the toxic kind. The free ammonia level needs to be greater than 5 ppm in order to kill off the bacteria. An ammonium level of greater than 5 ppm will not damage the bacteria/ microbes HOWEVER, this will all depend on the Ph level in your aquarium. Ammonia ( NH3) in water with a Ph less than 6.8, is naturally converted to ammonium ( NH4) but in a Ph of less than 6.0, nitrification ceases which means that your bacteria bed eventually starves and dies off no matter what level your ammonium is.
( Hope this isn't too confusing.
) So you need to know your Ph level as well as as ammonia ( NH3) level.
It takes quite a lot of ammonia to kill off beneficial bacteria.
The ph level of my tap water is high so I used a product called neutral regulator to bring it down to around 7. I genuinely appreciate all the help! I didn’t understand all of what you said…can someone break it down a little more?
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
The issue is that you are reading a combined ammonia/ammonium level with the API test so it may not be the cause of your problem. In fact, the optimal Ph for nitrification is 8.0 so I wouldn't have altered it.
One of the issues with the " Bacteria in a bottle" route is that you do not know whether the bacteria in the bottle is in fact still alive. Heat and cold can kill it while in route to you or the store. It could have been stored wrong and the bacteria died. The only way to know is if you get nitrates after you add ammonia. The only bacteria in a bottle I've used with great success has been the Fritz brand ( Fritzyme #7 for freshwater) and Fritzyme #9 (for saltwater tanks.) That said, with it being winter now, who knows if it arrives to you or the store alive. You are better off getting some filter material from an existing system so that you are inoculating your tank with live bacteria. Add an ammonia source at the same time as the filter material so that there is food for the microbes to feed off of. This is how you instantly "cycle" a tank. Without doing this, you are looking at weeks to months for it to happen naturally.
I should also stop here to explain what the cycle ( a.k.a. creating the biological filter) means: When you have a cycled tank, it means that you have enough microbes within the system to convert the amount of ammonia being produced by your ammonia source ( fish, snails, etc) into nitrates in under 24 hours. Now, let's use fish as an example: Say you added 2 small fish and the ammonia level rose and then went back to 0 and your nitrite level rose and went back to 0 and your nitrate level has started to rise, it means that your tank is cycled for those 2 small fish and so every time you add more fish, the amount of microbes needs to grow to handle the extra ammonia being produced. Now let's say you added 1 large fish to start the tank instead of the 2 small ones. Once your ammonia and nitrite levels rose and then went back to 0 you have a cycled tank for 1 large fish (or a number of small fish if you remove the large fish ) that will equal the amount of ammonia that 1 large fish was producing. Here's the thing about the biological filter, it's a living breathing thing that grows and shrinks to the amount of ammonia present in the tank. So the reason people suggest using a higher amount of ammonia to " cycle" the tank is because it's usually a higher amount than most tanks will house full of fish. What will happen is some of the bacteria bed will die off from the reduction in ammonia. That is a safer route than adding fish and having the ammonia rise to a dangerous level while the bacteria bed grows.
So, with all that said, what I would do is go back to using your tap water without altering the Ph. Check the water for ammonia and record the result somewhere handy. Check your local water department's website or call them to find out if they add chloramine to the water and at what level. If they do, use a product like Seachem PRIME or other product that breaks the chlorine ammonia bond and then test ammonia again in about 30 minutes. Compare the result to the first test. You SHOULD have an ammonia reading coming from the ammonium created by the PRIME or other product. IF you do not get an ammonia level and your water company uses Chloramine, you need to have your test reagents checked to confirm they are accurate or not expired.
Let's start with this and go from there.
Oh my goodness that’s so helpful! Where can I get filter material like that though?
I’m also testing the ph before and after the neutral regulator. Should I do a partial water change to increase the ph?
My fish store has some other sort of bacteria that they store in a cooler/refrigerator. Based on what you’re saying though, it doesn’t seem like that bacteria will be alive, right?
I still have so many questions. I need a master test kit to test for nitrite and nitrate don’t I? As of now, I’ve only been testing ph and ammonia. I’m also treating the water with Amguard. It’s also the seachem brand.
I’m also testing the ph before and after the neutral regulator. Should I do a partial water change to increase the ph?
My fish store has some other sort of bacteria that they store in a cooler/refrigerator. Based on what you’re saying though, it doesn’t seem like that bacteria will be alive, right?
I still have so many questions. I need a master test kit to test for nitrite and nitrate don’t I? As of now, I’ve only been testing ph and ammonia. I’m also treating the water with Amguard. It’s also the seachem brand.
The ammonia must be coming from somewhere. Sunstrate is the most likely candidate.
What substrate do you have?
Get a bucket of clean water and put a cup of your substrate in there. See if the ammonia goes up over a period of a couple days. If not, what else is in the tank that might be adding ammonia into the water?
What substrate do you have?
Get a bucket of clean water and put a cup of your substrate in there. See if the ammonia goes up over a period of a couple days. If not, what else is in the tank that might be adding ammonia into the water?
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
For now, we are going to start from zero. The use of too many chemicals makes it a bit more difficult to isolate which is the cause.
Aiken brings up a good point but that IMO is step #2. If your water out of the tap shows no ammonia and your water company is adding chloramine but your test kit is not picking it up after you break the chlorine ammonia bond, the issue is the test kit. If the test kit shows ammonia in the tap and even more after you break the bond but not as high as after being in the tank for 24 hours, the issue is coming from the tank. Neither of the 2 products you are using are going to cause ammonia to such an extent but since you don't have fish in the tank yet, there's no need to use them until we figure out the ammonia source.
If after you know it's not the test kit there is still high ammonia, do the substrate test in a separate container as Aiken described. I believe we had another member who also had a mystery ammonia source and it turned out to be a gravel she was using. It didn't make sense but the proof was in the test.
If chloramine is producing in excess of 8ppm ammonia out of the tap OP should contact their water company, and certainly shouldn't be drinking it. 1ppm would be a safe level.
4ppm chloramine is normally the limit, although some areas allow up to 8ppm but that makes the water not drinkable. And about 20% of the chloramine would be the ammonia. If they are seeing 8ppm ammonia and its from chloramine, the chloramine would be about 40ppm.
4ppm chloramine is normally the limit, although some areas allow up to 8ppm but that makes the water not drinkable. And about 20% of the chloramine would be the ammonia. If they are seeing 8ppm ammonia and its from chloramine, the chloramine would be about 40ppm.
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Id do a 24 hour test, but the fact you are seeing some ammonia in your tap water with your test suggests that where its coming from.
You are starting to see nitrite so the cycle is establishing. 4ppm of ammonia isnt going to kill any of those microbes off. Monitor it though as you dont want it creeping up towards that 8ppm again. If it continues to drop you know that your cycle is removing it faster than your substrate is releasing it. Normally ammonia stops leaching out after a while, but keep an eye on it.
Are you planning on a fish in cycle or fishless cycle? Either way what you are experiencing will be beneficial to the process. You might even find that by the time you are seeing zero ammonia your cycle is complete.
You are starting to see nitrite so the cycle is establishing. 4ppm of ammonia isnt going to kill any of those microbes off. Monitor it though as you dont want it creeping up towards that 8ppm again. If it continues to drop you know that your cycle is removing it faster than your substrate is releasing it. Normally ammonia stops leaching out after a while, but keep an eye on it.
Are you planning on a fish in cycle or fishless cycle? Either way what you are experiencing will be beneficial to the process. You might even find that by the time you are seeing zero ammonia your cycle is complete.
If you are doing a fishless cycle, you want the ammonia in the water so those microbes you are trying to grow have a food source. Zeolite will absorb the ammonia and prevent your cycle from establishing.
The goal is to grow enough microbes so the the ammonia is consumed naturally, not have chemicals do the work.
The goal is to grow enough microbes so the the ammonia is consumed naturally, not have chemicals do the work.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
That says to me that it's coming from your tank so I would do the substrate test that Aiken described earlier.
Okay, I’ll do that now.
The problem is that the zeolite took the ammonia down from 8ppm to 4ppm. Wouldn’t you say that’s helpful?
Also, I just tested everything again. I read the directions for the nitrate and nitrite tests and when done correctly, both are at zero…
The problem is that the zeolite took the ammonia down from 8ppm to 4ppm. Wouldn’t you say that’s helpful?
Also, I just tested everything again. I read the directions for the nitrate and nitrite tests and when done correctly, both are at zero…
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