High Nitrate levels

[Bluestman]

I have been getting consistently high Nitrate levels (>40ppm) in my tanks (30 gallon, Fish only and 5 gallon with shrimp, Java moss and amano ball) I have been doing massive water changes to rectify it and nothing worked. Then I tested my tap water and it shows 40ppm Nitrate.

I've searched around to see what I can do about it and all I've found are denitrators which are hideously expensive and additives which all seem to eradicate ammonia and nitrite as well as the nitrate which is hardly natural. I guess one mistake with those and everything dies. A daily mini cycle isn't gonna be healthy .

I'm guessing my only option is to buy water from my LFS. Does anyone know of any other way of removing Nitrate from the tank?

Thanks in advance

 

[HN1]

If you are getting that reading from your tap, you should call a lawyer and seek a doctor. What type of test kit are you using? How old? What dechlorinator do you use?

 

[taylorodw]

You may be able to find a closeby source of ro/di water and test that. If you are still testing 40ppm nitrates, then I would guess your kit has an issue. You can also have a lfs test your water and see if it matches up.

 

[Bluestman]

@HN1 lol I already thought of that but amazingly European legislation says that Nitrate levels below 50ppm are acceptable. In the US I believe it has to be as low as 10ppm which would be superb.
I don't have a de-nitration unit, way too expensive.
I have a nutrafin master kit with drops etc. rather than strips. Expiry date is 12/31/2012 so it should be OK. Will confirm results with LFS as advised. Why didn't I think of that? Thanks for the suggestion.
I have a LFS nearby that sells RO water, I didn't really want to go that route but if I have to I will. Probably a stupid question but is RO water Nitrate free?

 

[logansmomma1228]

I think the water has to have some level of nitrates in it, because that is what is keeping the ammonia and nitrites at bay. Anything under 10 is ideal, at least IME so far. You will always see some nitrates but you definitely don't want them >40. I would suggest continuing to do the water changes, those can't hurt . +1 on double checking with the LFS. Do you put prime or any type of dechlor in your water when you add it to the tank? That might help a little

 

[Mark Hewitt]

I have a LFS nearby that sells RO water, I didn't really want to go that route but if I have to I will. Probably a stupid question but is RO water Nitrate free?

Is it Pets at Home? I've been into one branch and they had big containers full of water. Although you'd have needed a fork lift or a crane to move it!

 

[Bluestman]

Is it Pets at Home? I've been into one branch and they had big containers full of water. Although you'd have needed a fork lift or a crane to move it!

lol no it's a small shop that mainly sells marine, I can buy it by the gallon there it does seem my only option at the moment unfortunately.

 

[jsoong]

If your tap water has 40 ppm of nitrates, then doing water changes won't bring it down ... lol ...

R/O water should be devoid of any minerals. It is essentially pure water. However, you don't want to use plain R/O in a tank, as the fish & plants do need some minerals to live. <Plus pure water has no buffers, and will not keep a stable pH.> In marine, you would mix in a marine salt mix to make the water suitable. For FW, there are salt/buffer mixes you can use. But counting the cost of the R/O water, the mixes, and hauling all that water from the shop ... that might not be an economical way to go.

The only (relatively simple) way to remove nitrates is with rapidly growing plants. Hornwort is reputed to be a nitrate sponge ... but pretty much any fast growing plants will do. You do have to have good light (and enough other nutrients) for this to work. In my tank, I have to add nitrates in spite of my goldies or it will bottom out to zero.

Alternatively, there are people who use algae as the nitrate remover. Generally, this is done in a sump setup (who wants algae in the tank?). Algae is a good nitrate remover, and much easier to grow than higher plants ..... This is more commonly done in SW, but I've seen FW setups like that on the web.

 

[Bluestman]

I have checked with LFS and they add what they call "freshwater salts" to the water. And they confirmed that the "freshwater salts" don't contain Nitrate or any heavy metals (copper esp. as I have shrimp) although they couldn't give me specific ingredients which was bizarre. It costs £7 for 40 litres so it will have to be done gradually.

The fish and shrimp actually seem fine with the levels as they are but I have read that high nitrates damage the fish immune system so it has to be dealt with.

In the long term I think plants are the way to go. I really did think that loads of Java moss and an amano ball would reduce the nitrates significantly in the 5 gallon tank but they haven't made a dent. As I only have around 1w per gallon I guess I'll have to upgrade the lighting before I get any results from that.

 

[BigJim]

I'll second jsoong's suggestion on the plants. My water sprite keeps the nitrates in my 20L with 60+ guppies below 10ppm between weekly water changes.

 

[thincat]

I think the water has to have some level of nitrates in it, because that is what is keeping the ammonia and nitrites at bay. Anything under 10 is ideal, at least IME so far. You will always see some nitrates but you definitely don't want them >40. I would suggest continuing to do the water changes, those can't hurt . +1 on double checking with the LFS. Do you put prime or any type of dechlor in your water when you add it to the tank? That might help a little

RO/DI water has 0 nitrates. Nitrates does not keep ammonia and nitrites at bay. It is the end product of the nitrogen cycle before it is either removes by PWC or converted to nitrogen gas and returned back to the air.

 

[Bluestman]

I have ordered a generic mix of 50 plants online. These should arrive in the next few days. Obviously some of them are going to be entirely inappropriate for my tanks so will be dumped. Hopefully the remainder will help to lower nitrate levels in the tanks. The java moss in the 5 gallon is actually pearling at the moment which I didn't even think was possible for java moss. Until this starts working (if it even does) I will have to go with r/o water. I will be getting 10 gallons tomorrow and will do a 50% water change in the 5 gallon and then put the rest into the 38 gallon. I will keep doing this weekly until the levels have dropped significantly. Will this work?


Edit : Got RO water today rather than waiting, on LFS guys' advice will change 10% a day until nitrates are reduced in the 5 gallon. He reckons 50% is too much and the cherry shrimp will react badly to the change if it is too sudden. I think it will take about a week to get the nitrate down to an acceptable level.
My test kit is accurate too. Nitrate really is coming out of my tap at over 40ppm. Quite annoying that I pay £45 a month for water and the water I get is garbage. It's bad enough that I already pay for a water filter just so I can drink the stuff, now I have to pay to fill my fish tank too.

 

[jsoong]

7 pounds for 10 gal of R/O ... OUCH!! I can get 10 gal of R/O at my grocery store for around $3-4 (that is like 2 pounds). If you ahve to do this long term, you might want to check the grocery store to see if you can get distilled water or R/O for less & buy you own salt mix.

Something like this:
Seachem. Neutral Regulator
would be what you want to buffer distilled water for a fish tank. Or you can DIY the salt mix using CaCO3 & other salts.

But you do have a good lfs. They are giving you good advice. <Although you are paying dearly for it!> The R/O will be very different in parameters from your tap & you need to do the change over slowly. No more than 10% at a time & I would prob only do the pwc every other day at the most.

 

[Bluestman]

Well I did a 10% water change and retested and there was no change. Then I tested the RO water I bought and found it had >25ppm Nitrate. I was under the impression that RO water had 0 Nitrate. Will contact the shop tomorrow when it opens and see what the situation is.

 

[BeavisMom62]

Neutral regulator is the bomb! I had ph trouble in my tap water. Used to be neutral, then one day I noticed the water pressure out of the tap was low and did a water test for the heck of it. My ph out of the tap was 9! But, within a day or so, it would drop to below 6! So, I resorted to buying water. Here in FL, we have free standing water dispensers where you bring your own container and it costs $35 a gal. Not too expensive but I have a 65 gal, a 30 gal, a 23 gal and a 10 gal - and at the time I also had two 15 gal tanks! Doing 50% w/c's weekly results in LOTS of water! Not to mention the effort of lugging all of those 5 gal containers home.

Then I started using coral gravel so I could use my tap water to keep the ph from dropping but there was still too much ups and downs with the ph. Started using the NR and as long as I add it weekly with w/c's it does keep the ph stable.

Of course my problem doesn't really relate to your NA problem. Sorry about the highjack. I got carried away. Neutral Reg really is a great product.

 

[logansmomma1228]

RO/DI water has 0 nitrates. Nitrates does not keep ammonia and nitrites at bay. It is the end product of the nitrogen cycle before it is either removes by PWC or converted to nitrogen gas and returned back to the air.

Huh, you learn something new every day I thought that nitrates would always be in the water, I have read other places that it's impossible to get them to zero?

 

[logansmomma1228]

Well I did a 10% water change and retested and there was no change. Then I tested the RO water I bought and found it had >25ppm Nitrate. I was under the impression that RO water had 0 Nitrate. Will contact the shop tomorrow when it opens and see what the situation is.

Now I am real confused as to whether or not water should have any nitrates.... i always thought you couldnt get rid of them... lol. I thought I had this whole nitrogen cycle thing down!

 

[mfdrookie516]

Huh, you learn something new every day I thought that nitrates would always be in the water, I have read other places that it's impossible to get them to zero?

In a successful reef tank, nitrates are <5 (at least thats what they strive for), most prefer to keep them at 0. In a high tech planted tank, nitrogen has to be added for the plants (and to keep algae at bay). As TC said, nitrate is the end product of the nitrogen cycle (well, almost... it can go one step farther though). It goes ammonia-nitrite-nitrate.

 

[logansmomma1228]

Yeah I knew the am-nI-nA part but I thought that as long as the am was being proccessed than nA would be visible. This is the most science I ahve had in a while ! lol.

 

[jsoong]

Well I did a 10% water change and retested and there was no change. Then I tested the RO water I bought and found it had >25ppm Nitrate. I was under the impression that RO water had 0 Nitrate. Will contact the shop tomorrow when it opens and see what the situation is.

RO should have zero nitrate (and pretty much zero for everything else).

Either your RO source is terrible (eg a leaky/old membrane in the machine), or your test is bad. Get some distilled water & test it. <Should be able to find some in grocery store or pharmacy.> If your kit still test positive with distilled water, then your kit is bad. Otherwise I would try to get my money back from the lfs!