How high to raise temp?

[minotaur]

My Rainbows have Ich (started sometime over the weekend), and I am going treat the tank with salt/heat. I just don't know what temp to raise my tank to. I have seen anywhere from 82 F to 88 F in this forum.

I have a 30 Gallon tank with Rainbows, Gouramis, Rasboras, Cory Cats, and a common Pleco. Oxygen should not be a problem, I have an airstone, a HOB filter, and a power head that can crank out bubbles like a jet-ski. I keep the temp steady at 76 F and pH between 7.0 and 7.2.

Thanks for your help

 

[Jchillin]

The ideal temp is 86 F. You would raise this slowly over a couple of days. You should be aware that cats on the whole cannot withstand this treatment.

 

[docrak]

I've done it over a few hours. 2 degrees each hour or two and by evening you should be around 88. Just remember, fish don't like quick changes, sudden that is. Also don't forget fish we acclimatize new fish in 20 to 30 minutes and that change can be 4 or 5 degrees. I've never had a problem increasing my tank temp 8 degrees over 5 to 8 hours.

 

[JohnPaul]

86 is the minimum temp you need to get the tank to...anything less and you are only helping the ich, not killing it. And if you are not 100% positive of the accuracy of your thermometer(s), I would shoot for 87 or 88 just in case.

 

[minotaur]

Ok, thank you all for your help.

I will run it up to a little more than 86 Deg over the next day & a half.

I am also going to add some freshwater aquarium salt, per the directions, after the tank gets to 80 Deg.

We will se how it goes...i hope the Albino cory's fare well

 

[An t-iasg]

I would increase the temperature one degree every 6 hours. You don't want to stress the fish with the high temperature change, but you don't want to linger too long in the temperature range below 86 degrees, either -- this will spread the ich faster and not kill it, as JohnPaul mentioned.

My preference is for 87 degrees. 88 is probably the highest I would go. At these temps, the ich is killed. It may not be worth the stress to the fish to go any higher. If the fish do look stressed, it's probably not the temperatures themselves, but warmer water holds less oxygen. To get more oxygen into the water, try lowering the water level a bit, if you have a HOB filter, so the water "splashes" more. If you have a canister filter, adjust the spray bar so that it agitates the water surface. This surface agitation will draw more oxygen into the water.

 

[docrak]

I would increase the temperature one degree every 6 hours. You don't want to stress the fish with the high temperature change, but you don't want to linger too long in the temperature range below 86 degrees, either -- this will spread the ich faster and not kill it, as JohnPaul mentioned.

That’s way to slow. If the tank temp is 75F and you want it a 88F you have to increase the temp by 13F. At 6 hours per degree you would have to wait 78 hours to reach that temperature. That’s over three days. At that rate all you are doing is increasing the cycle rate of the ICH parasite without killing it. You should be able to accomplish a 12 degree temperature increase in 6 to 10 hours without stressing the fish.

Even if you still want to play it safe do 1 degree per hour or two. My recommendation is to be a 88F within 24 hours at the first sign of ICH. Knock it out quick before it can spread.

 

[minotaur]

Should i start putting in the freshwater salt before temps get to 80, wait till it gets to 80, or wait till it gets to 86?

When adding salt, i know that i probably do not want to add the recommended amount all at once, over how long a period should it take to add the total recommended amount? (in this case its 1 tablespoon /5 gallons)

 

[Guest]

i agree with everything they said

although i am too lazy to read all the posts im just saying this

dont raise the temp too high too fast you will give your fish shock

this is off topic but one of the reasons that i love discus they need their temp at 86-89 which means NO ICH!!! yay

HTH

 

[JohnPaul]

I'd add the salt in a few (maybe 3 or 4) doses over a day or two. Never add salt grains directly to your tank; always take some tank water out, dissolve the salt in it, and then re-add the water. Or, if you happen to be doing a pwc, add the salt to the new water you are going to be adding to the tank.

Also, note that as you are raising temp you are gonna be speeding up the life cycle of the ich parasite, which means that for a few days it is going to be looking like the ich is getting worse. Don't give up! I started heat treatment on my female betta with ich when I saw *two* spots. About 4-5 days later my betta was literally covered with ich spots--she looked horrible! That was a day or so ago. As of right now, she is down to only 1 spot left.

For those who don't really care about biology, you can stop reading now. But for those who do, basically what is happening with heat treatment is NOT that the heat "kills" the ich...an ich parasite itself can survive quite fine above 86*F. However, ich cannot *reproduce* at 86*F or higher. So that is why heat treatment works, but also why it always look like the ich is getting worse before it gets better. As the ich already in your tank is exposed to increasingly higher temperatures, it moves through its lifecycle faster...which means at first, more and more ich is attaching itself to your fish. However, none of these ich parasites are able to reproduce...so once all the ones currently alive in your tank die off, the infestation is ended.

And as for salt, technically speaking it is not needed at all as long as you keep up the heat. But it is helpful for a couple of reasons already mentioned by others--since high temp water holds less oxygen, a little salt in the water is said to help gill functioning and so the fish can better "breathe" the oxygen in the water. Plus, since each of those ich spots when it finally detaches forms a small lesion in the skin (probably too small to see with the naked eye, but a lesion nonetheless), some salt in the water acts as a general tonic in order to help ward off secondary infections (bacterial or fungal) developing at the sites of those ich wounds.

Last in the realm of semi-useless information, even without heat at all, just a high enough concentration of salt can kill ich by itself, even at room temperature. However, to treat with salt only you are talking about a concentration of around 2-3 ppm...I'm not exactly sure what that translates to in terms of teaspoons per gallon, but it is reasonably high.

 

[minotaur]

Great information...thanks for your help

 

[minotaur]

I have been raising the temp slowly and monitoring the tank and all of the fish.

This morning all were doing well, and they all ate when I fed them at 8:00.

I checked on them at 10:00 and all were still doing well.

A few minutes (10:45) ago I saw one of the Rainbows floating upside down, near the bottom of the tank. Within minutes it was dead. I have never seen that happen so fast. All of the other fish are OK, and I have been slowly raising the temp and adding salt.

My temp is now at 81 (5 Deg increase over the last 24 hours) and I have added 2 doses of salt (5 is recommended)

Any ideas?

 

[docrak]

Was the fish covered in ICH? How have you been adding the salt and how much salt is a dose per how many gallons?

I don't think it was the temp change that did it. That's one degree every five hours, way to slow. It's posible that the increase in temp just spead up the ICH cycle and that's what killed the fish.

 

[minotaur]

I don't think it was the temp either, all of the others seem ok with it.

The directions call for one rounded tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons. I have a 30 gallon tank, but with gravel and decorations and stuff I was going to dose for 25 gallons or 5 tablespoons. I added one yesterday at 5, 1 this morning at 8 and another one around noon.

I have been disolving the salt in a small container and then pouring it into the back of my filter.

Temp is now up to 83 and everyone seems ok, except the cory cats dont look very happy. I plan to run the temp up to 88 over the next 4 or 5 hours, and add the remaining doses of salt over that time as well.

I dont want to go slower because the rainbows are covered, and the guoramis have it now

 

[minotaur]

Lost another Rainbow this afternoon. Same thing as the other lost rainbow, one minute he is swimming along and next he is as dead as a doornail.

I got the temp to 86 and completed the doses of salt. (over about a 48 hour period). The fish don't seem to mind the high temp, but then again, I have enough bubbles in the tank to raise the Titanic.

My remaining Rainbow is the only one that appears to still have Ich, except my Gold Guorami is hiding from me, so I really can't tell about her.

I think next time I am just going to use NOX-ICH