Ich and tetras

[cowgirluntamed]

Tank Parameters
20 gallon freshwater that will be set up a full year from tomorrow(the 22nd!)
Marineland biowheel penquin 150b(I think, looks like the picture anyway!) I also use a blue filter pad that is cut to size, not the cartridges though I have a media bag with the marineland carbon/ammonia neutralizing blend due to reasons below)
pH- 8.2 (stable, it has always been this)
Am- 0.25 (I use the marineland carbon/ammonia neutralizing blend in my filter to absorb this. It's in my tap water and has never gone over this(except at the very beginning when starting the tank).
Nitrites- 0
Nitrates-40 (I just did a 50% water change 2 days ago because it was this high. Even did a very good gravel vac. I will do a 25% change today. I don't think my fish are eating as much so may back off on feedings during treatment.

My current stock is 6 glowlight tetras-full grown(had about 4-5 months), 9 black neons-all but one or two are full grown(6 of them I've had for about the same time as glowlights. I think I added them a couple of weeks after the glowlights. The other three I've only had about 1 1/2-2 weeks, hence where I know I go the ich from). 1 bristlenose pleco, about 3 inches, have had her about 4 months as well.

(I had started my tank with 10 glofish danios, lost a couple. Got a rubberlip pleco but it was too shy so took back. Didn't think I could get other fish with the over active danios so traded them in for some cardinals which ended up dying of treatment of ich(used QuickCure). So, got the glowlights, also got regular neon tetras. The neons ended up dying one after the other(either neon tetra disease or just a bad batch.) Glowlights remained healthy and got the black neons after that and the bristlenose sometime inbetween.

I had been doing a 25% partial water change every two weeks. Will up that now that I have more fish to once a week after the treatment of ich.

Anyway, my problems began when I got these 3 new black neons. I had known that the tank at petsmart had been having issues with ich for over a month and a half. I finally went in again because with other black neons, I had ended up with 1 female to 5 males. They were hurting her as well as each other. The only thing that kept them from getting infections(which I tried treating with other things like pimafix/melafix) was adding a tablespoon of salt per 10 gallons. One of the new fish I got was female, the other larger one more than likely a male...and the smallest one not sure yet. The lady at petsmart seemed to know and said something about fins being a bit different but I didn't notice any fin difference..just a slight body difference and the females being bigger than the males.

I bought a little 5 gallon to keep these new fish in for quarantine purposes. However, they were not eating and I had not cycled the tank so was afraid of ammonia spikes(Next time that tank is going someplace else, I think they were just afraid in a higher traffic area). I did not SEE any ich on the fish until the day after I added them to my 20 gallon. I normally keep my temperature around 77. However, when I noticed this, I slowly raised the temperature to 86 within a couple of days. It reached 86 on the 15th. I turned my airpump all the way up as well. I did not add extra salt, just had been keeping it at 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. I wanted to do things slowly so as not to stress my guys out. Well, a few days later, my glowlights started looking bad(will post pictures after this text), they lost color and were breathing heavy and also staying on the bottom not really eating. I had been on another forum and asked about it but nobody answered me over there. So I added another pump and small airstone to the tank for more air but it didn't seem to help. Finally, a couple of days ago I ended up turning the temp down to around 83 degrees. They seemed to do ok with this though still look horrible. They don't seem to be breathing as heavy now. I also finally added 2 more tablespoons to the tank(one tablespoon a few hours apart).

My question is...do I try to raise the temperature back up to 86? I don't want my glowlights to die on me...they are my fav fish in there! Or will it be ok to keep it at this temp with the extra salt added? And also, they don't seem to be eating as much. They don't want the flake food hardly at all, but they seem to perk up at the freezedried bloodworms. The black neons are eating well and so is the bristlenose. Is it ok to just feed bloodworms? Or should I just back off on my feedings? I normally feed twice a day, more than likely too much I think...I'm bad about that.

If I forgot to add anything please don't hesitate to ask! And thanks for any help in advance. Here are some pictures of my glowlights.
Kristen

 

[irdajoh]

Welp, as a rule you shouldn't treat your MAIN tank with meds since they cause chemistry imbalances and can kill your bacteria colony. So get some little heaters for the qt tank and use MAIN tank water not fresh tap even if it's conditioned. As for treating the ick, aquarium salt/life guard ick guard/liquid super ick cure(api). Any medication that's simply measure(not prime or exxcel) and it must have the active ingredient Victoria green or blue.

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[irdajoh]

Just make sure it's in thr qt and not main tank

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[irdajoh]

And Epson salt helps with bacterial infections and can help the fish as well. And for your main tank you want to keep the temp 72-78 degrees. Any thing above 83 can cause damage to your fish

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[cowgirluntamed]

That's the thing...these fish are all in my main tank now. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. The three newer ones didn't show signs until after I put them in main tank. They weren't eating in the other one and I didn't see any signs so went ahead and put them in main tank. One fish had one spot on it the next day. So now my main tank has ich. I just didn't know if I should go ahead and try putting the heat back up to 86 to help kill it or not as stressed as my glowlights seem to be. I do have 1 tbsp of aquarium salt per 5 gallons of water in there now.

 

[irdajoh]

Try putting your fish all of them, in the qt tank with the medications until they get better feed once a day in qt tank, and load up the salt in your main tank for a few days then do a biggggg 50-70% water change and reintroduce them to the main. If there's no fish ick csnt complete the life cycle. How long has the tank been running. It sounds like it's new tank syndrome since all the fish are stressed out. That's the only time ick can attack the fish, do you teat your water normally wi th api master test kit?

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[cowgirluntamed]

It's not new tank syndrome. It's been running good for a year now. I recently acquired 3 new black neon tetras. They were in my 5 gallon qt for only three days. They wouldn't eat and since I didn't see any ich at the time I put them in my 20 gallon main. I can't put all these fish in that 5 gallon. They are tetras so I'm attempting heat and salt. One tbsp per 5 gallon aquarium salt. I don't want to use meds unless I have to. My glowlights are stressed from the ich and I believe the heat. I am trying 86 degrees again and they are breathing more rapidly again. Would a temp of 83 degrees be high enough to get rid of ich? They seemed more comfortable there. Still stressed but breathing better. If it won't I'll leave it at 86 this time and just wait and see.

And I do use the master test kit. Last reading yesterday was pH: 8.2(stable), ammonia: 0.25(this is the level in my tap water. I use marineland carbon/ammonia neutralizing blend to combat this), nitite: 0, nitrate: 40. I'm trying to get nitrate down more and it may have after the 25% water change after I tested. I will do another WC tomorrow and test again beforehand.

 

[irdajoh]

Heat dosent kill it, it only speeds up the life cycle. Once ick Is on the fish its immune to treatments, that's why bringing the temp to 84 will help speed it up so they become free floating. Once it's free floating it's susceptible to treatments such as salt.

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[irdajoh]

Do you use tap water conditioner? Or are you putting tap water stright into the tanks

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[cowgirluntamed]

I've been reading in a lot of places, including on this forum I believe, that some people do heat only treatments of 86 degrees for a couple of weeks and ich is gone. I just wondered if it was ok for a slightly lower temperature since my glowlights seemed more stressed at 86 than at 83.

I do not use water conditioner. I have nice well water with no chlorine in it. Doing a test on my tap water before, letting it sit in a cup for 24 hours, it's almost the exact same as my main tank minus a bit less nitrates(around 10). It is hard water but there's not much I can do about that.

 

[irdajoh]

I still feel you should condition the water just to be safe, the fish are stressed for a reason 99% of the time it's water quality.

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[irdajoh]

86 seems dangerous imo but if others have success go for it

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[cowgirluntamed]

The three new fish were the ones that gave the ich to the rest of my others. The tank at petsmart had been having issues in that tank for over a month. They finally all looked clean which is why I purchased them. I should have quarantined them longer but didn't so now I have to pay the consequences with the ich in my main tank. I was just asking if I could have the temp a bit lower since they don't seem to like it at 86 much since I am doing the salt as well.

 

[irdajoh]

I mean like I told you the best thing to do. I've also said if the fish are healthy and not stressed ich cant attack the fish because they can fight the parasite off themselves. Try 84 and see if your fish are in distress at that temp.

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[cowgirluntamed]

I'll try that and see if it works. I thought ich could attack any fish, healthy or not. Though my bristlenose seems perfectly happy and I haven't seen any spots of ich on her whatsoever. Anyway, I'll try lowering the temp just a bit and hope it works! If it doesn't seem to be getting better I may order some paraguard I think it's called from seachem to see if that will get it. I hear that's a better, less harsh product to kill ich. Thanks for all the help!