7Enigma said:
Wow Tom,
I think that is the most irresponsible post I've ever read from you. I would wager a hefty amount of money that the average fish keeper that goes about the FC method is much more successful (both in fish health and in speed of stocking) than the more "traditional" methods. And I put traditional in quotes because like any hobby advancements are constantly being made.
You mean like the one where I established the causal link between Green water blooms and NH4? Or where I've not had a single measurement of NH4 in any new tank using mulm? Nor has other aquarist both new and very well experienced?
I made a list of things that prevent a need for FC.
There are many ways around anyone using this method.
All good and make sense over the long term.
Why drive your car when you can walk. Why email someone when you can call them, why call them when you can write a letter. See my point?
Why use FC when you have mulm, you can stock responsibly from the start, do routine water changes? Why wait 3 weeks with an empty tank?
Just because something is an established way of doing something for a long period of time does not mean it is the quickest nor safest method of doing something.
So now FC is safe and quick?
Than mulm? I add fish that same day, never had an issue.
Than routine water changes?
I can pack a tank and have little issue if I do routine large water changes.
Discus breeders have long done this FYI.
Many people do not have access to mulm. Many people are starting up this hobby with no friends or family with established tanks.
They must have gotten the fish from somewhere, a LFS should be more than willing to offer up a little mulm from a filter
If you don;t have local friends with tanks and none of your own, that can be ann issue, but most everyone has a source of fish they got their tank/livestock from and they are generally very gracious and willing to offer their dirt/mulm to seed a new hobbyist's tank.
Sure they could go about adding one fish at a time and slowly stocking, or stock with plants and suffer an algae bloom (because you cannot honestly tell me that someone without access to mulm completely has down the fert dosing of plants too right?), or use the TRADITIONAL way of using "hearty" fish to deal with the toxic ammonia and nitrIte levels, and then get flushed or returned to a store, but is that the best way?
I tell folks to do large frequent water changes if they need to add a lot of fish asap, this removes the NH4 directly and physically, pretty simple concept, still much cheaper and a better long term habit to learn for this hobby.
Adding fish and not overfeeding is wise as well.
If you pack a tank and over feed, plus not do routine water changes, that's a bad situation.
These are very simple things that often get over looked. Common sense things.
If these are done, then there is no need for FC.
Somehow folks managed in the past, come on, what do you think folks did long before the web and the FC method was promoted?
Other than Biospira, there is no current method other than fishless cycling where you can create a biological filter with a capacity for larger than your planned final fish population, while at the same time guaranteeing little to no maintainence.
"little to No mainteance".
Sorry, that is irresponsible aquarium keeping advice.
The other flaw is that mulm is widely available to most anyone on the web because at that point they already have a tank and are keeping fish, a few are thinking about it, but most folks do have access to mulm, that is live bacteria ready to go.
Yet another flaw=> plants.
They directly remove the NH4.
There is no cycle at all, which was the original point and why folks should really consider keeping healthy actively growing plants in their tanks.
Plants are better than Biospira, they also can be sold and look much better than bacteria
They also habor lots of bacteria on their roots which seeds a new tank.
Sure you could have a heavily planted tank and never see an ammonia spike. But what happens when that beginner fishkeeper doesn't know to dose potassium, or waits on a water change since he's heard from others that you shouldn't do PWC during cycling? Now you have a deficiency. Now your plant growth is stunted and you WILL build ammonia levels in the tank. These WILL harm the fish.
Well if someone gets bad advice about plants, that's not the method's fault now is it?
Or gasp! What if they DO NOT want plants?
The fishless cycling method when properly performed and PATIENCE is applied,
What if I don't want to wait 3-4 weeks?
Same argument you asre presenting here.
Most everyone does not want to wait I've ever talked to.
And what about if they do not do it properly?
Same thing.
You should consider the counter to your own arguments.
is the single easiest way to ensure that your fish will never suffer an ammonia burn, its that simple.
I'd say common sense, mulm if you can get it, good feeding routines and frequent water changes would do a much better job.
These are things we told aquarist of all types long before you..............
and they work if the aquarist follwed the advic e as you say......"properly"......
You don't have to worry about algae (no lights are needed), you don't have to do water changes, you don't have to prune, rearrange, clean the filter, dose ferts, manage light levels, have DIY CO2 or Excel dosing, or even know what an aquatic plant is.
I have non CO2 plant tanks and also set them up the same way, never an issue.
Many report that with the non CO2 methods, no water changes either.
We do not rearrange/prune often, well, because there's no need.
If it's a non planted tank, getting rid of algae is a snap.
No water changes is a bad idea because the NH4 ends up as NO3.
there's no export unless use use a DBS or a water change or plants or resins.
So a water change is the simplest and easiest thing to suggest to anyone.
Which was one of the original pieces of advice I tell new folks in the hobby in general and in the aquatic plant hobby, unless it's a non CO2 method.
All you have to do is add some ammonia source, and walk away. Yes people would love to be able to have that fish right away to watch (its our instant gratification need), but I'd rather have a fully stocked tank that I can be assured is safe for my fish, and won't require backbreaking PWC's if I added too quickly, or overfed, or improperly did a test.
I feel its a disservice to the hobby to call this method "foolish" and I think other members specifically on this forum will agree.
Backbreaking PWC's? I use my brain, not my brawn, a wise aquarist would use a Python or your own DIY version is a must for anyone with tanks. Makes water changes with buckets sloshing around a thing of the past.
http://www.pythonproducts.com/nospill.htm
We used one DIY version as do most LFS's going back 40-50 years.
A hose, some PVC, unscrew a faucet, connect a hose and you are off.
Most marine folks premix in a large container and then use a pump to add the water.
Many set up automated water changes, I personally prefer the semi automated types, simply turn a valve and the tank drains except for a few inches. Turning another, the tank refills.
A little plumbing skill is all that tanks.
Newbies will not know about the Python water changers, nor think to plumb like this, but can be told at the LFS.
No one likes to test water. No one likes to spend $$$ on that.
I'd much rather see an aquarist spend their $$ on a python and not deal with a bucket ever again.
Then there is no need for FC and after a few weeks, no need for so frequent water changes either.
Long after the cycle is going, the python will be of use, while the FC method is no longer useful.
Floating water sprite is a nice NH4 sorber also and many folks at the LFS I worked at as kid got bags of it for their new tanks and came back with more bags to trade.
1.Adding plants, 2. doing frequent water changes, 3. routine common sense feeding of fish, 4. not overstocking to begin with, all these contribute to the tank long after the FC method is done.
Mulm is like Biospira, except it's free.
Don't have anyone and you have mean LFS that will not give you the dirt?
Try doing 1-4.
Works well also.
I, the LFS's and many customers and web folks have done this without issue.
I've seen a lot of issues with FC: dead fish, green water blooms, sick fish. I seek more natural safer methods.
So do most folks for that matter.
Try thinking beyond the first 3 weeks in this hobby and you may see more into the arguements presented. FC is not going to help folks later.
My advice on the other hand will.
Regards,
Tom Barr