Itchy Guppies

[RadMax8]

Hello all,

I added three guppies to my freshly cycled 10 gal tank this Monday. The second day I noticed one of the fish flashing on the plants. Wednesday they were all doing it. As a precaution against ich, I've cranked the temperature up. The only issue is, I don't see any of the telltale white spots. Could it be that I've caught it before the spots showed up, or is there something else that could be affecting their gills (this seems to be the itchy spot). It seems like their gills are a little more red than would be expected.

I've tested the water and it is showing 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite, and about 10 ppm nitrate. Tank is planted with Eco-Complete substrate. Let me know your thoughts. Thank you!

 

[absolutangel04]

Other things will make fish flash, but ich is the most common. Since your fish are new, they could have ich. It can infect the gills before you ever see the spots. This can cause the gills to look inflamed.
Another option is a different parasite, or an issue with your water. But, your water seems fine. Like I stated, flashing usually means ich. If you are able to treat with salt as well as the heat, you will also have a chance of knocking out any other parasite.
How long ago did you raise up the temp? I would just treat it like ich and wait it for to see if you can start to see spots. It can take a few days for them to show up.

 

[RadMax8]

Temperature was raised on Wednesday. Figure I'll leave it up there until a few days after The flashing quit. How long should I wait before I treat for parasites?


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[BBradbury]

Your Tank

Hello Rad...

The water chemistry in a small tank can change by the hour. If the tank was mine, I'd change half the water twice a week and add a bit of standard aquarium salt. A teaspoon or so for every 5 gallons of new, treated tap water. I also like to keep a healthy growth of Hornwort floating to keep the water chemistry steady between water changes.

I keep livebearing fish and mine seem to be a bit healthier with a little dose of salt.

Your call. You're the tank keeper.

B

 

[absolutangel04]

I have never seen any study that shows that salt keeps fish healthier. Some people choose to do it, some do not. That part is up to you. Personally, I avoid salt in tank unless I am treating an illness because it is typically the change in salinity that disrupts the invading bacteria or parasite, rather just the mere presence of salt. Though, other people keep salt in all their tanks and feel it helps. Like was said, up to you.
I would do a salt treatment now. Not later. I don't really suggest treating for any specific parasite unless you actually know that you have it. Meds can have side effects. So, I would wait on that until you see some other symptom that indicates the presence of a parasite.

 

[RadMax8]

Thanks for the advice, guys. One final question: Will the salt treatment hurt my snail? I can move him back to my 29 gal for the time being while I treat the other fish.

Again, I appreciate everyone sharing their knowledge!

 

[absolutangel04]

Depends on what sort of snail it is. Nerites will be fine, apple snails or mystery snails should be removed.

 

[RadMax8]

I'm dumb. I knew nerites could handle some salt. Long week. Thanks!


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[absolutangel04]

I'm dumb. I knew nerites could handle some salt. Long week. Thanks!


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No worries! I know how that goes.

 

[RadMax8]

Update: On you guys' advice, I picked up some aquarium salt and added it to the tank. I let that go with elevated temperature for a week. I also did a couple 50% water changes. No change in fish behavior.

Friday night, a couple fish had fins that were beginning to look clamped. After testing the water (no big change in parameters), I observed the fish. They didn't show any real outward physical signs other than some redness around the gills. So, after doing some online research, I decided to medicate. Saturday I began treating with T.C. Tetracycline, as the symptoms closely matched bacterial gill disease. After the treatment, one fish began acting lethargic and hanging out near the top of the tank. He, along with a couple others, had what looked like a very fine, white powder on their bodies. Over the course of the day, this cleared up. Today, the lethargic fish died. Before he died, he was hanging out at the top of the tank, and looked like he had his mouth hanging open and his gill opening was wider than the other fish.

Now, there is a second fish starting to exhibit similar behavior. Mouth open, lethargic.

What could be going on here? This is quite perplexing to me.

Thanks again for the help!!

 

[absolutangel04]

Ok, first of all how high did you raise the temperature? You
Secondly, when you say fine powder that makes it sound like velvet. Check out that disease and see if it fits your symptoms. The red gills may be throwing you off a bit, but the gills could be red from a variety of things, including velvet or a different bacteria or parasite. I think the powdery body is more telling than red gills.
Look at some of the pictures associated with velvet. The descriptions often describe the powdery appearance as yellow, but it is often pretty pale and white-ish in appearance. So, don't let the color description mislead you.

 

[RadMax8]

Absolute,

I upped the temperature to about 88 F, as I was initially treating for ich.

I didn't notice the powdery appearance until after adding the first dose of medication. I assumed that this could have been a reaction to the meds. It did not look like ich, it did look slightly more like velvet. Over the course of about 8 hours, the powder looked like it went away.

Could this still be a symptom of velvet? I would imagine that the appearance of velvet on the fish would appear than a week and a half, but I'm not completely sure.

Thanks again for your advice.


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[Noviceafter2yea]

I think 88 is too high. 86 at most is what others have recommended for me a while back. Also make sure there is enough oxygen with the raised temp. The guy at the top may have been trying to get more air.

 

[RadMax8]

I decreased the temperature back to the normal 78 last Friday before medicating.

Today I came home to a dead fish on the bottom of the tank. There was one who was on his last fins. I ended up putting him out of his misery. Just a warning, there are some dead fish pictures.

The first fish was laying on the bottom with no visible signs of distress, other than his mouth open.

The second fish was struggling at the top of the tank. His mouth was open and his gills open wider than usual. His mouth was also red.

One of the remaining fish is showing a little redness near his gills. Does this shed any light on what could be happening? I tested for ammonia today and it came back as normal, 0ppm. Nitrates came in at about 20-30 according to the test kit.

Thank you for taking the time to help.

 

[Noviceafter2yea]

I decreased the temperature back to the normal 78 last Friday before medicating.

Today I came home to a dead fish on the bottom of the tank. There was one who was on his last fins. I ended up putting him out of his misery. Just a warning, there are some dead fish pictures.

The first fish was laying on the bottom with no visible signs of distress, other than his mouth open.

The second fish was struggling at the top of the tank. His mouth was open and his gills open wider than usual. His mouth was also red.

One of the remaining fish is showing a little redness near his gills. Does this shed any light on what could be happening? I tested for ammonia today and it came back as normal, 0ppm. Nitrites came in at about 20-30 according to the test kit.

Thank you for taking the time to help.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I think the Nitrites are supposed to be 0, the Nitrates should be a positive number, but low. Is it possible you meant Nitrates? Perhaps your tank is cycling.

It is also possible the extreme changes in temp stressed them out. I know changes have to be gradual. Yours went from very high down by 10 to a much safer temp.

I'd wait to see what the water experts say. They are very knowledgable.
If they don't weigh in, maybe repost as a water issue in a couple of days.

 

[RadMax8]

Whoops I meant nitrAtes. The tank was fully cycled. 5ppm of ammonia converted to 0ppm in less than 24 hours, all the nitrite converted back to 0ppm in the same time.

 

[RadMax8]

So annoying. Finished up with the treatment of T C Tetracycline. No fish looked to be flashing yesterday, all looked to be swimming happily. Today yet another fish has red gills. I think this spells the end of his life. I'm getting married this weekend and I worry that when I come home the rest of my fish will be dead.


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[Noviceafter2yea]

So annoying. Finished up with the treatment of T C Tetracycline. No fish looked to be flashing yesterday, all looked to be swimming happily. Today yet another fish has red gills. I think this spells the end of his life. I'm getting married this weekend and I worry that when I come home the rest of my fish will be dead.


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First, congrats on the upcoming nuptials.


Some of the meds (granted they are melafix and pimafix) I use advise to do a second treatment if necessary. Of course one must take into account they are a business wanting to make money.

I have never done anything fancy like tetracycline so I don't know if you have any left over.

Also, I have a platy that seems to have red gills all the time despite numerous water changes and ammonia readings at 0. I don't want to jinx anything, but so far she has been okay.

Perhaps that is going on with yours. Is the behavior odd? I can't remember offhand whether it is or not.

Hoping for the best.

Oops, just read they were flashing. I wish I could be of more help. Keep us posted.

 

[absolutangel04]

Congrats on your marriage! I myself did that just about a month ago.

For a note, if it was ich, 88 is not too high. Ich doesn't even die until 86, if you have fish that can handle it then 88 is prefered. I think this has been velvet, just commenting for future reference.

If it is a stubborn gill infection, your meds should have wiped that out too. My suggestion is a med with copper. That was the most suggested treatment I saw. To complicate things, you could have multiple issues going on, but I am not sure what else to do at this point beyond to treat. You can also leave off the lights. It seems to me taht you have this stubborn disease and your fish are not progressing past having their gills compromised. You can try lowering the water level a bit to increase oxygenation while the fish are compromised and see if it relieves any symptoms. It won't fix your issue, but may help a bit with preserving their lives.
Freshwater Velvet Disease

 

[RadMax8]

Thanks for the congrats... I'm excited!

Also thanks for the advice. This tank is actually my soon-to-be-wife's, so I'm trying to make it as lovely as possible.

When I came home and checked, no one seemed to look vastly different from when I saw them last, so maybe there was a bit of an exaggeration on her part. It seems that flashing has stopped, so that's a very good sign. I wish I had more time to observe, but last minute wedding planning has been taking up all my time.

Absolutangel, I'm still not convinced it was velvet, but that seems to be the best solution out there. I wonder if the guy who had a powdery look just took an entire envelope of medicine to the face and had a serious adverse reaction.

I guess I just don't know. I hope my treatment worked for the fish. I'm really nervous about coming home to an empty tank (well, at least the nerite snail is thriving in there... happiest critter I've ever seen!)

Thanks for all the help, and for sticking with this!