Just had ich, now missing fish... worried!

[FriendsNotFood]

Hi All,

Long time lurker, first time poster, and I'm a bit of a worried fish. My 6-month running biorb tank has recently had a bit of white spot / ich, and I have been treating it. It has just seemed to clear up after about 7-8 days, but suddenly some of the previously unaffected fish are looking bad.

One of the harlequins started listing yesterday to one side, at about 30 degrees, and has lost a lot of his colour. Today I can't see him at all.
Of the three harlequins, I can only see one of them.

I've also not seen the pleco for two days, so am quite concerned whats going on in that tank.

I'll try to go down the question list, as suggested:

1~What type of fish is afflicted?
At least one out of three harlequins. The one harlequin was listing to one side and lost lots of colour. It had trouble maintaining balance, last I saw. The ich has cleared up on the mollies, and all visible fish seem happy and healthy. On watching the tank for 30 mins, two harlequins and a pleco are currently AWOL.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)?
Unfortunately I do not know the water parameters, though the water was tested 10 days ago when I bought the ich treatment, and all was fine. I was informed to raise the tank temperature from 24 to 27, and I have started to bring it back down - it is 25 at present. The tank has a lid, and we have no other pets to scoop out the fish.

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
The tank is a 30l biorb, and been set up for six happy months. The only problem we've had was a spot of fin rot/fungus on the plec about 2 months ago, but this cleared up after treatment, and he's been happy since. The water has been fine every time it has been tested when purchasing fish or plants over that time, or when testing for when the plec had fungus.

4~What type of filtration are you using?
Filtration is by carbon pellets in the filter, using standard biorb bubbler.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?
There are ten fish in the tank, of which only seven are visible today. I can't see the others, including the ill one, but hopefully they may reveal themselves on a water change which I'm due later this evening. It is not a big tank so I am quite worried I've not seem them yet today.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel?
20% water change once every three-four weeks. Last time was two weeks ago due to the ich treatment. It is due another change now.

7~How long have you had the fish?
Fish have been nice and stable, altogether, for about four months.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank?
Nothing new has been added since the pleco went in about four months ago.

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish?
They get flake food once every few days, and the pleco gets an algae tablet at least once a week. There are enough patches of visible algae in the tank for him to eat too.

The plants are also starting to die off quicker than the leaves are growing back, but the water quality is fine whenever we've checked. Can we feed the plants in a special way too? What could be wrong?

Is it possible the ich treatment (King British WS3 formula) has screwed up the water, causing the problems in the fish?

Many thanks for your help...

John

 

[FriendsNotFood]

Well, i've taken out some of the plants and carefully ferreted around, and found one dead fish around the marbles at the base...

...with no real visible reasons for death. The pleco is nowhere to be seen, but I think I've found some of his skeleton. The third harlequin has vanished completely.

All the other fish seem fine, the temperature is at 26, no more white spot, but I don't know why three fish have died within 24 hours and have no way of understanding why. I didn't expect three apparently healthy fish to die and be eaten/buried so quickly.

I'm quite upset about this, can anyone offer any advice? What should I look for next?

 

[dkpate]

Ok, first off that tank is wayyyy too small, it is only about 7 US gallons.

Most of us on here who have UNDERstocked tanks change 25-50% of the water once a week.

I am guessing your fish are dying of ammonia poisoning.

The meds might have killed your good bacteria, I have never used the King stuff, so I am not sure what it is made of.

I would suggest doing at least a 25% water change every day until you can get yourself a liquid test kit, and test the water yourself. Pet stores usually use the paper strips, and they are very inaccurate.

 

[FriendsNotFood]

Thanks for your reply.

After considerable analysis in what I've been doing, I think I may have overdosed the meds through stupid miscalculations, and poisoned the water so some of the poor fellas got too stressed out. I don't understand how all looked well until yesterday, which is why I was so surprised. Amazed 7/10 of them are still doing so well if the others just died so quickly.

The Aquatics shop used proper test liquids and left them for a good period of time, they are well respected locally. I don't think ammonia was the problem, it was an overdose.

The tank is a biorb 30, and I wouldn't put more fish in than currently there. In the 6 months we've had it and had tests done (had one last week) all was acceptable and they were happy. I'd read online in many places that an inch of fish per half gallon was fine, and we're below that.

To try to get things rectified now the ich has pretty much gone, I have put the carbon back into the filter and carried out a 20%ish water change, readying more water for tomorrow to try to reduce any excess medication in the water. How could I have been so stupid... am very upset with myself as I had hoped to have the plec for many years to come...

 

[dkpate]

Don't pay attention to the one inch per gallon rule. Would you put a 20 inch fish in a 20 gallon tank? It mostly applies to skinny fish.

 

[mudraker]

[/QUOTE]8~Have you added anything new to the tank?
Nothing new has been added since the pleco went in about four months ago.

If you havn't added new fish in four months then it is highly unlike your fish had ich.

Ich is a parasite that must have have host fish to live its lifecycle and it has no dormancy period.

Ich is capable of living in fish gills and be unseen by the human eye, but your fish would have died off long before four months passed.

There are funguses that resemble ich that are caused by unclean water. Sick fish will often prey on each other, which is why they disappear.

DK is right, 10-20 % pwc monthly is not enough, especially if your tank is overstocked.

When you say your water is "fine" meaning 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 4 or less nitrates, it does not take into account pathogens that thrive in water that is rarely changed. This is the root cause of fin rot.

Also, the whover is testing your water may not be using proper tests or methods.

I recommend at least a 50% pwc daily until what fish will survive this fungal outbreak show no more symtoms.

With a high bioload, you will have to do at least a 50% pwc weekly or you will continue to have finrot and other fungal and bacterial infections with your fish.

 

[FriendsNotFood]

Thanks for the advice guys, I find researching information on fish keeping almost impossible due to the wide range of recommendations. Please take this in the manner I mean it - its hard to get a clear answer when everyone has their own way of keeping fish and different experiences.

For example, fish food containers say twice a day, my shop says around one every two-three days, I've read on the net to feed twice a week. I've read recommendations to change the water once a week, at 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%, once a fortnight at 30%, once a month at 25%... every time I research advice, I get something different.

As for the tank, all the other fish are looking well, and I did a 50% water change yesterday, with some more ready to do later today. I got some water preparation liquid to be doubly sure I wasn't putting anything from the water supply too. Am concerned the plants don't look too well due to excess oxygen, so have turned down the air pump a little too - hope this helps them grow a little better.

 

[dkpate]

I change 50% of my water in all of my tanks once a week. I feed my fish twice a day, 8 hours apart. One night of the week I feed them boiled, shelled peas, and another I feed them frozen bloodworms.

 

[OhNeil1969]

Hello FriendsNotFood,

I can understand your frustration with the amount of varying advice you can find on the internet. The best advice I've gotten is to use the trial and error method. If your fish are healthy and thriving then the set up you have may be fine. Having said that, it really becomes important that you stay on top of your water quality. If you perform regular tests for toxins and waste build up then you can determine the correct PWC schedule for your tank. I am relatively new to the hobby (after a long absence) but I believe that too many water changes can be just as bad as too few. IMO, frequently changing water can make it difficult for your tank to establish a successful bacteria colony for proper cycling. I also feel that frequently disturbing your fishes "home" can create stress making them prone to many diseases. Learn how to test your tank water yourself as opposed to having your LFS perform the test for you. I would use your LFS only to confirm your findings to make sure you're performing the tests accurately. For me, half the fun is performing the tests and knowing what the results mean. It gives me a sense of accomplishment when I'm confronted with a water quality issue and am able to find a solution with good old problem solving. There are so many different solutions out there that finding the 1 that works for you can be a fun challenge.

And above all -- HAVE FUN; ENJOY YOUR FISH!!!

 

[mudraker]

Large water changes during the treatment for ich greatly reduces the number of parasites in the water and helps the fish fight possible secondary infections.

[/QUOTE] I am relatively new to the hobby (after a long absence) but I believe that too many water changes can be just as bad as too few. IMO, frequently changing water can make it difficult for your tank to establish a successful bacteria colony for proper cycling.

FYI: Very little beneficial bacteria actually live in the water column and has no bearing on cycling. There is hard science to back this up.

I also feel that frequently disturbing your fishes "home" can create stress making them prone to many diseases

The vast majority of bacterial and fungal diseases that attack fish are caused by unclean water (Ich is not one of those, Ich is a parasite).

Fish do not thrive in an enviroment where they are forced to live in their own poop. It has to be cleaned out, same as land based pets.

The high nitrates that build up in an aquarium where an aquarium that does not have enough water changes fosters bad bacteria that attack fish, who will also be stressed by living in dirty water.

There is hard science to back this up also.

 

[OhNeil1969]

Hi mudraker;

I'm not trying to attack the science. I agree with everything you said. To clarify, when I speak of PWC I'm also speaking of gravel vacuuming, which I've been told can affect the beneficial bacteria colony. My point about testing your water is to ensure that your fish are not living in their own waste. The point I was trying to bring across is that everyone's tank is different and while there is a lot of good info out there on proper tank care, Friends should find solutions that work for his set-up: test the water and use the science to find a solution that addresses his needs. My main concern was not to encourage him to do what I do but to find out what works for him. For me that's half the fun!