Kalkwasser supplementing

[fijiwigi]

I don't have a whole lot of Corals absorbing calcium so a need for a lot of supplement is not necessary. I am using reef crystals tested calcium at about 370ppm I want to get it up to about 400 or more for optimum coraline growth and to help out my favia brain coral. I bought a 2.5gallon Kent Aquadose pretty much a plastic jug with an IV drip line. I am using it to help minimize the work of topping off due to evaporation.

The 2.5gallon jug drips into my return pump zone of my sump/fuge I have it on a slow drip like 1drip per second.

I added some Kent Kalkwasser powder 3 teaspoons to the 2.5g of RO/DI water in the jug. The directions stated 1/8teaspoon to 2teaspoons per gallon of water. about 1/4teaspoon to 5teaspoons max for the jug. With the 3 teaspoons I added and a slow drip I am wondering what this will do to my calcium.

I will be testing Calcium/Alkalinity every 2 days to see where I am at. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I could not use any Kalkwasser next time or more depending on how it turns out.

 

[ccCapt]

Kalk is NOT used to raise ca and alk, it's used to maintain those levels.

First, get your levels up where you want them and then you can add a little kalk to your top off water, IF NEEDED. Those new corals you got won't really use much ca or alk out of the system. PWC's will probably be enough to keep the levels up.

The way I suggest you raise your levels for calcium is: get some Kent TurboCalcium (calcium chloride pellets), take 1 cup and add it to 1/2 gallon of RO water and mix. It will get pretty hot. This is the only mixture you will ever need to raise calcium.

To raise your alkilinity: get some Arm&Hammer baking soda. There are 2 ways to do this depending on your pH. I will give you the method that's good for most tank with a normal pH range, as opposed to a tank that has a typically higher pH (8.4 or better). Take 1 1/8 cup of baking soda, spread it out on a cookie sheet and put it on the over at 400deg for 1 hr. Baking it drives out the extra co2, so you started with sodium bicarbonate and ended with sodium carbonate. Mix the baked baking soda with 1/2 gal of RO. You have to shake it alot as it is takes a while for it all to dissolve. You now have the only mixture you will ever need to raise your alk.

Now, use this reef chemistry calculator to figure out how much of each mixture you need to add to raise it to the desired levels. The product for ca is Kent TurboCalcium and the product for alk is Randy's 2 Part recipe 1.

I swear by Randy's 2 Part solutions. It is the only thing I dose my tank with. Here is his entire article on making your own sloutions.

 

[fijiwigi]

very cool calculator and thanks for the article. So its best to get the calcium in my mixed water for my PWC up to 400 first and add that water during PWC And over time the water from PWC will increase the CA in my tank. When there is Corals absorbing CA in my tank Kalkwasser is needed to prevent it being depleted. So if I start screwing my Calcium by adding TurboCA are the odds good that my Alk will be affected and having to supplement that? I don't want to become a mad scientist just bump up my CA a bit. I guess I will give the TurboCa a try and test ALk/CA often to see what the effects are. Looks like I will have to get a magnesium test kit as well if I start messing with things. Just want to get it figured before I add some serious corals to the tank.

 

[ccCapt]

You want to raise the levels in the tank. Dose directly into your tank (not the sump). It will take a really long time and lots of big pwc's to raise tank levels if you only bump up the pwc water.
When you have the proper levels in your tank, you can use kalk to maintain those levels....but, too much of a hassle IMO. Overdosing kalk can lead to major problems with pH. I find it much easier to just dose equal parts of each solution, as needed.

I've met and talked face to face with a few of the hobby's top experts about salt brands. The brand of salt recommended was Instant Ocean! But, before they use it, they raise the alk, calcium and mag levels with the recipes I mentioned. I asked why IO, answer was it's good salt, cheap and easy to get the levels up where they should be before adding it to the tank. Depending on the size of their tank, they maintain alk and ca by either a ca reactor, kalk reactor or simply daily dosing.
Not sure why I don't do it like that....lol.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Agree with cccapt... unless you've got some big SPS tank, or a frag farm, your easiest (least likely to mess up) method will be 2-part solution to maintain Ca/Alk levels. I'm another that has gotten my levels where I want them with TurboCa and the alk part of a 2-part, and now just dose daily with 2-part. And of course I use TurboCa to bump the Ca level of my Reef Crystals PWC water up to my tank level (400).

While the commercial 2-part solutions are expensive compared to kalk, there are several DIY recipes out there using bulk ingredients that work just fine for a lot of folks, as cccapt linked to.

 

[tawolcott]

Bulk Reef Supply - Bulk Reef Supply
Bulk Reef Supply - Bulk Reef Supply

 

[fijiwigi]

I was kinda hoping to avoid daily dosing what happens if I am gone for the weekend? I bought the 2.5g jug for dripping my top-off water due to evaporation. I didnt want to mess an ATO device. If I always mix my PWC to 400ppm CA by adding TurboCA everytime eventually the tank would always be at 400ppm CA. So really why the 2-part soulution? that is to replenish the calcium/Alk absorbed from corals correct doesn't Kalkwasser do the same thing as a 2-part solution its definately easier for me. I just add the kalkwasser to my 2.5g jug I refill the jug every 3days or so. Can I add the 2-part solution to the jug.. I am thinking they are the same thing, what am I missing

 

[ccCapt]

It's really good your asking questions before messing with reef chemistry. I like to keep everything simple. I suggest you step away from the kalkwasser...lol. It may seem like a simple solution, and it does work, but you must know how it works and how much to use.
When a coral builds it's skeleton (LPS or SPS) or coralline grows, they consume elements in the water. The 3 main being calcium, alkalinity and magnesium in proportionate amounts. It is always x amount of ca, y amount of alk and z amount of mag. The proportion doesn't change. For this reason, if you need to supplement, it's best to use a balanced solution that add those elements back in the same proportion. Kalk will maintain ca and alk and mag has to be done seperately. The 2 part solution gets dosed in equal amounts (1/4 cup of each for example) and part 3 of the 2 part is a mag supplement.

I was kinda hoping to avoid daily dosing what happens if I am gone for the weekend?

OK, let's step back. The corals currently in your tank will use very little ca. So first off, you know the ca is 370 in your tank. Let's figure out how much is being used every day. Test today, test tomorrow...is there any change? Keep testing until you determine how much your tank consumes. Once that is known, you decide how to supplement. Easy 2 part, or figure out how much kalk to add to your top off. It can't be dosed directly into the tank. So you need to determine, based on the tanks consumption and the amount of evaporation, how much you should use.

If I always mix my PWC to 400ppm CA by adding TurboCA everytime eventually the tank would always be at 400ppm CA.

Let's do some math. ca level at 370, 20% pwc at 400 = 376 now. Assuming ca is maintained at that level and in 2 weeks another 20% pwc. 376 ca, 20% pwc at 400 = 380 now. Another at 380, 20% pwc at 400 = 384. You'll get there eventually.

So really why the 2-part soulution? that is to replenish the calcium/Alk absorbed from corals correct doesn't Kalkwasser do the same thing as a 2-part solution its definately easier for me.

With the 2 part it is known how much, exactly, to dose to maintain your levels or raise them. You can raise ca from 380 to 400 in 1 dose with no problem. You can't dose enough kalk fast enough to raise ca that much, plus it will no only raise ca, it will raise alk, and since kalk has a pH of about 11 (I think, it may be higher), adding too much too fast can cause major problems.
The beauty of the 2 part is once you get your levels right, you dose equal parts of each ca and alk.

Can I add the 2-part solution to the jug

No. You can not mix both of the 2 part solutions together and you can't add kalk to either.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

That was a great post cccapt. Absolutely great.

One thing about your setup fijiwigi that jumped out at me. And since I don't do kalk, I'm not sure if this is normal...

Is it normal to dose kalk into a top off drip feed? My thinking is that as the warmer temps start coming around, you're going to want to increase your top off (evaporation) drip rate to make up for the additional evaporative losses. But yet you haven't increased your calcium load. By making your calcium/alk makeup dependent upon your evaporation losses, it seems like it'd be hard to keep that consistant. Again... I've only read about kalk and don't use it, but it seems like you'd want to drip it separately from your makeup water if you were dead determined to use it. Anyone have an opinion on that?

I use a 2-part (c-balance) and I don't see myself moving away from it. The only reason I dose at all is that after a few months of coralline growth, it started turning white. That's when I did my first calcium test. It was around 320 so I realized I was going to have to do something about it. If I didn't want the coralline growth I have, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have to dose daily. Guess I'm one of the few that don't mind scraping it off my glass!

From everything I've read, if you have high calcium usage, kalk is the way to go. But you don't... and with the lighting you have now, you won't. Don't get me wrong... if you find something that works for you, that's great, and we all want to hear about it. But I think we're just afraid of what *might* happen since kalk is a pretty powerful additive. It doesn't take much to mess things up good.

 

[fijiwigi]

So I am still left with the question of what to do if I am gone for 3days. Lets say I have a lot of Calcium sucking corals for arguements sake. Do you over dose the 2-part to plan for the time being gone or just let the tank's CA drop and then recover it after the 3 days?


I understand there is a relationship between Calcium and Alkalinity etc... And it is not as simple as just adding some CA and calling it a day. But Do you believe that If I only add TurboCa to my PWC to increase my Calcium from 370 to 400ppm for each PWC that it would satisfy my current needs of just bumping up the Calcium to help push the Coraline growth and make my Brain happy and thriving??

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I honestly don't know. It all depends on how much coralline you want. Here's what I'd do if I was in your shoes...

Get your Ca up to 400, or wherever you want it, using TurboCa. Don't increase your tank's Ca levels more than 20ppm per day. (That's just want the back of the B-Ionic bottle says... seems like it's a good limit.)

Once at that level, don't add any Ca for a week. After a week, measure your Ca level again and compare. With your results, you'll be able to know how much Ca/day your tank is using. Use that calculator cccapt linked to, and figure out how much of whatever Ca supplement you want to use you need to dose per day to keep your levels stable during the week.

If you don't see any drop in Ca over the week, then don't add anything. Yet. But keep testing each week. Eventually, as you coralline builds up, it'll start chewing up some of that calcium and you'll see a drop. The brain will probably take a little, much not much right away. It's probably going to devote it's energy for the next few months in getting used to its new home!

I dose 20ml of Part A & B of C-balance per day. That, in addition to adding enough TurboCa to my PWC water to bring it up to 400ppm calcium, my tank stays consistently at 400ppm calcium and between 8-9 dKh alkalinity. Magnesium stays between 1140 and 1200ppm.

Personally, if I were to leave for three days, I'd just not worry about it and see where I'm at when I get back, and play catch up if I have to. That's not long enough to really cause a problem. Even if you have a calcium hog of a tank.

 

[ccCapt]

Personally, if I were to leave for three days, I'd just not worry about it and see where I'm at when I get back, and play catch up if I have to. That's not long enough to really cause a problem. Even if you have a calcium hog of a tank.

I agree. And if you are really concerned, bump them up a little higher than normal before you leave.

 

[cmor1701d]

I also would not worry about dosing over a weekend or even up to a week unless the tank is heavily loaded with sps and clams.

I also noted that you were planning on mixing the kalk in the dosing the jug. That is a no-no. The kalk should be mixed in a seperate container and the bottom inch or so of the mix should not be used. There is a lot of precipitate from kalk that accumulates in the bottom of the mixing container. It is also recommended to add kalk at night when the pH is typically lower.

I latched onto Randy's home made 2 part a few months back and I'm a believer. It's cheap, it's easy, what more could be said. I even checked on Dow's site to find the differences between the products. Several of them are food grade.

 

[ccCapt]

Do not buy any Dow calcium chloride product, such as DowFlake, Peladow, Prestone DrivewayHeat, QuikJoe, etc, unless you know it was made before Jan. 07. Starting in Jan. 07, Dow stopped the process in which bromide was removed. All "new" Dow products have an extremely high bromide level now...and it still hasn't been determined if the high levels of bromide will have any adverse affect. Dow has a list of codes on their site that will help determine when the product was made.
Bulk Reef Supply has calcium in stock that is still safe to use.

 

[fijiwigi]

So what exactly do I need to buy?? And what exactly do I need to do Still a little up in the air on the idea? I could probably get away with doing nothing at this point but need to figure this out for my long-term plan. What are all of you doing to your tanks exactly. I know there is the option of TurboCa to bump up the Calcium and then a daily 2-part solution. Trying to determine how much 2-part to add I am still unsure of. What other ways are there of achieving the goal of bumping up my Reef Crystals Calcium level. I understand the Homeade Calcium Chloride but not sure how to administer it to my tank. Can you all explain it to me like I am a first grader?

 

[ccCapt]

All you need is calcium chloride (Kent TurboCalcium, or calcium chloride from Bulk Reef Supply) and Arm & Hammer baking soda.
Follow the directions on the link I gave before for instructions on preparing the solutions. I dump in 3/4 cup of alk supplement in the AM and 3/4 ca supplement in the PM. That's it.
Your consumption will probably be very low, so at this point I wouldn't worry about mag. Pwc's should take care of that.

 

[fijiwigi]

All you need is calcium chloride (Kent TurboCalcium, or calcium chloride from Bulk Reef Supply) and Arm & Hammer baking soda.
Follow the directions on the link I gave before for instructions on preparing the solutions. I dump in 3/4 cup of alk supplement in the AM and 3/4 ca supplement in the PM. That's it.
Your consumption will probably be very low, so at this point I wouldn't worry about mag. Pwc's should take care of that.

So you just dump it right into the tank? should it be dumped into the sump so it has time to mix a little or do you mix with RO/DI water and then dump it in? And how do you determine how much to add? The Calculator linked will tell me what to do?

 

[ccCapt]

Yes, dump it right in the tank, near a powerhead.

No, not in the sump. Reason being it is a high concentration you are dosing into a small area (sump). There is a very good chance the solution will precipitate in the sump and calcify on the walls of the sump and on the impellor magnet in the pump.

It's already mixed with RO when you make it. Don't dilute it.

Yes, use the calculator.

 

[fijiwigi]

Yes, dump it right in the tank, near a powerhead.

No, not in the sump. Reason being it is a high concentration you are dosing into a small area (sump). There is a very good chance the solution will precipitate in the sump and calcify on the walls of the sump and on the impellor magnet in the pump.

It's already mixed with RO when you make it. Don't dilute it.

Yes, use the calculator.

Thanks still a Im starting to understand.

 

[cmor1701d]

Cccapt,

Thanks for posting that info about the Dow products. I found the bulletin on their site and found Randy's posting about not using the Dow products any longer. Dow lists an even higher concentration in their Anhydrous Calcium Chloride.

Do you have information from Bulk Reef Supply that the product they are selling is different?

Thanks