Lethargic, dying dwarf gourami, and a dead tetra

[bubblenest]

[FONT=&quot]Hi everyone,

I'm a little stressed out right now since my tank seems to have suddenly suffered a turn for the worst. I'll provide the pinned questions first, the explain the situation. Long version in normal text, short version in bold.


1~What type of fish is afflicted?
In order of occurrence- 1 dead spiny nerite snail (recently purchased), 1 dead neon tetra, 1 very sick blue dwarf gourami (named Skye), then 2 more dead nerites (larger, had them for at least 8 months).

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)?
ammonia- 0
nitrites- 0
nitrates- 10-20 (I honestly can't tell them apart on the sheet)
temp- 78-80
pH- between 6.4 and 6.8

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
It's a 10g. Been set up for just under a year.

4~What type of filtration are you using?
Umm... I can't remember off the top of my head. It's for a 10-20 L, I think Fluvial?

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?
Before this incident there were: 5 neon tetras, 2 dwarf gouramis, 3 nerite snails.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
Water changes are weekly, 3 gallons. I do not vacuum because the tank is planted. That said, the tank got a good stirring up during a move (see below for details.)

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
1st dead snail-- a week or two. The dead tetra-- 8 months. The dead nerites- 7 months. The sickly gourami-- 8 months.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
A month ago I changed the water source. The only new addition has been the new nerite that died a few weeks after purchase.

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?
About 2 months ago I went from 2 feedings/ day to 1 feeding/day to keep nitrates down. They are getting flakes and micropellets (alternate days).

Ok, so a month ago I moved from an apartment on city water to a house on well water. I tested the new water before moving and found it actually had more optimal hardness and pH for the tetras. During the move they were bagged up, water in the tank was lowered to 3 gallons (planted aq couldn't go dry), and I transported the tank, substrate, plants, fish AND the water I had taken out. Old water was added back in, a lot of gunk had been stirred up during transport, I waited for that to be filtered / settled before adding the fish back in. Happy to report all critters survived happily. Until last week.

Two weeks ago I purchased a small spikey nerite snail. Brought him home, added him without QT (it seems that a lot of people don't QT snails? Was this a huge mistake?)

10 days later-- spikey nerite upside down. Ok, I right him but now he's not moving. I let him sit a day or two. He moves! Hooray! But then... a day later he is dead. I assumed that in his upside down time my orange dwarf gourami may have harassed him too much.

Next day-- dead neon tetra. The rest look a bit shabby. I do a larger than normal water change. Notice that the shy blue Dwarf Gourami is not coming out to eat and is showing little to no appetite.

Go away for the weekend. Housemate reports blue gourami still not eating. I find him on his side in the back of the tank. Assume he's dead, struggle with a net in the plants to remove him. Realize he's NOT dead, just so weak he got tangled in some roots.

Realize the two large nerites are not moving. Keep an eye on them for 24 hrs. No movement, one is now eaten/shell empty.

Sorry for the novel but too many deaths and I really want my little blue gourami to survive! He's often bullied by the orange one, and I root for him like the under-dog he is. He is currently in a large tupperware floating in the tank, he occassionally swims but mostly lays on his side. He has been like this now for 4 days and has not eaten.


Summary (TLDR version): moved a month ago from city water to well water. Water parameters good, I use a conditioner in case there are metals. Fish fine after move. Have slowly transitioned them to new water over the course of a month. Got a new snail. He died, then a fish died, then a sick fish, then 2 more dead snails.

The orange dwarf gourami and the remaining 4 neon tetras look TOTALLY FINE.

HELLLLPPPP
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[Delapool]

Hi, welcome to the forum! Sorry for the loss of your fish.

My thought would be there was a bit more stress than normal (possible tank still settling down) and then just got struck by a series of events. Once one animal died, it fouled the water and the stress was just too much.

Wondering what the tank ph now is and if you have tested the ph of the well water straight from the tap and also after it has de-gassed in a jar for 24hrs? That would give some idea if your ph (as a proxy for other things) is fairly stable or not. Also a low ph may not be ideal for the snails (shell), was the ph higher in the city water?

I assume you have a water report on the well water and it is safe to drink? Ours used to be fine but got high in "salts" during the last part of summer.

 

[bubblenest]

Unfortunately the blue gourami passed last night.

It certainly could be a domino affect (effect?) but there was no change in nitrates/nitrites etc. They're all in normal range.

I check the pH of the tank weekly after my water change. There was no real difference between the water I tested straight out of the tap and the water in the tank (maybe a difference of 0.1?) but overall it seems stable. The city water pH was indeed MUCH higher (7.6-7.8), and I'm sure the snails appreciated that, but the tetras were probably less than pleased. So the snails were probably unhappy with the move but the tetras should be enjoying the lower pH. Yet I've lost members of both! Can it take up to a month to settle? They seemed totally fine until last week.

Lastly, I personally have not had a report on the well water, but I'd certainly assume it's fine considering my housemate has lived there and drank that water for 8 years! She does add water softener (not exactly sure the composition), could that affect anything?

 

[Delapool]

It all sounds good I must say and I would have thought the tank would have been stable again in 2 or 3 weeks of shifting well and truly. so it's all a bit odd.


Two thoughts would be bacterial infection or water chemistry. Fungal and parasites I think can be ruled out. Were there any marks on the fish that died? Any lesions or colour loss spots (in neons) or curved spines or bloating/pop-eye that might indicate an internal bacterial infection?


Neons I find need a well-established, stable tank and ime will keel over otherwise. I think their small size just doesn't help. Why it decided to keel over I don't know though.


Has anyone kept fish in the water before? Also other thought would be is the change water straight well water or after the water softener? Maybe on the well water - I think it's still on the cards to check.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Could be a hardness issue.
Water softeners usually remove hardness (Ca/Mg) and I think replace it with sodium.
Test with GH test kit, fairly sure these target calcium and magnesium.

Could be Kh issue. Which could explain the more acidic conditions.
(That's the simple overview, many factors involved!)

Test Kh.

Read this.
PH, KH And GH in Depth

 

[bubblenest]

Hi, sorry to take so long to respond-- didn't want to type it all on my phone.

In the last week and a half the remaining tetras and the remaining gourami are still in good health-- eating and happy. The gourami is keeping himself busy constructing his bubble nest (his favorite activity). The tank is turning into algae central, as I've been skittish to get new snails since the disaster. Tells me how much those little nerites were doing!

No, no one had any signs of sickness prior to death that I could tell. The dead tetra looked pale, but I think that was just because it was, well, dead.

I don't think anyone else has kept fish in this water before.

I DID find out that apparently the water softener had broken and had not been working for at least a month (likely more) so I doubt it was a salt thing. It is repaired now so I have to re-do all my from-tap water measurements to make sure everything is OK.

J. Mcpeak, I do not know the Kh/GH of the water-- I remember seeing that it was fairly soft water a few months back (when I first planned on moving there I took water measurements) but I will have to double check. Especially since I have my water kit that really only test pH, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites. I'll have to grab some strips to test gh and kh. Thank you for the link on PH, KH, GH.. I feel MUCH more educated now