Lighting your reef... Best bang for your buck.

[mr_X]

Good question. Stay tuned.....

 

[AquaRick]

I'd love to see the sunlight's par readings under 24-30" of water

 

[Gti_Leo]

Good question. Stay tuned.....

if i remember there are some fixtures that will output the same readings if not higher. mrsaltwatertank on youtube did a radeon comparison and i believe the readings were pretty high up there out of the water

 

[aadair22]

This is a little bit off the current topic (sorry) but I was in my lfs a couple of days ago and asked the owner how he liked using the LED's he had over two of the grow out tanks. They are the dimmable taos that are discussed on here. He said they were doing fine, but when I asked him if he planned on converting everything over to them, he became pretty negative about them, saying they weren't cost effective and that he was losing color on some of the acros he had under them. I wish I had asked him what he had them set at, because my first impression was that maybe he was burning them by turning the lights up to high. The thing he said that prompted me to ask this question though, was that he said they don't have the UV that corals require to grow, hence the loss of color.

Now, I know that there are plenty of testimonials on here about the growth and color of their corals, and I have loved my fixtures since I got them, and seen noticeable growth, however these are my first lights so I have nothing else to compare them to, and all the corals I have need moderate lighting at best.

Anyways, I wasn't really sure how to question him on what he meant by UV.. Other than the difference between the ultra violet color and the actual wave length, but even then, I don't know much. I personally have no doubt that these lights can keep anything that I want under them, just would like to know how to convey information to my LFS. It's a little hard to tell him what to do though seeing as how I am very much still a noob in the hobby If anyone has any suggestions or talking points I could use in defense of these lights, I would appreciate it!

 

[Gregcoyote]

Boy did you open a case of worms! This debate has gone on a while. There is a lot of literature on UV radiation and corals. But most of what they call UV emitters on the market are pretty much just violet colored. Real UV LEDs emit almost no visible light and are quite dangerous to work with. Fiddling with the color spectrum is another debate. Broad spectrum, like MH/actinic combos vs. targeted spectrum like LED and to some lesser extent T5. Both groups have huge success stories. But one thing is what makes the corals "look" best isn't necessarily what will promote the most health and growth.

Selling MH is safe, known, profitable because you will need bulbs, maybe a chiller. And MH is proven. It is also done, stick a fork in it. You'll have to special order bulbs from Russia years from now. LED is where it's at it seems, but I suspect the whole story isn't told yet. I like LEDs just fine. More advantages than disadvantages.

 

[aadair22]

Boy did you open a case of worms! This debate has gone on a while. There is a lot of literature on UV radiation and corals. But most of what they call UV emitters on the market are pretty much just violet colored. Real UV LEDs emit almost no visible light and are quite dangerous to work with. Fiddling with the color spectrum is another debate. Broad spectrum, like MH/actinic combos vs. targeted spectrum like LED and to some lesser extent T5. Both groups have huge success stories. But one thing is what makes the corals "look" best isn't necessarily what will promote the most health and growth.

Selling MH is safe, known, profitable because you will need bulbs, maybe a chiller. And MH is proven. It is also done, stick a fork in it. You'll have to special order bulbs from Russia years from now. LED is where it's at it seems, but I suspect the whole story isn't told yet. I like LEDs just fine. More advantages than disadvantages.

lol, as much as I didn't want to open that can, I had to.. I like the fact that you mentioned MH's because when I asked him about using that instead of the LEDs he smirked and said T5's.. I am assuming since they are grow out tanks that they are shallow tanks and the lights are hung as low as possible. However, I fail to see how t5's would provide some sort of uv to grow corals faster than LED's. So I guess my questions is my lfs burning his corals with the taos and then saying that t5's somehow provide more UV than them?

like I said before, I am all in favor of LED and personally think that t5 and MH, all though tried and true, is quickly becoming a dead form of lighting

 

[Gregcoyote]

I think a mistake is made with LEDs that cause corals to bleach and loose color temporarily under LEDs. Being more frequency specific, they just don't look as bright to the eye as they actually are.

 

[aadair22]

I think a mistake is made with LEDs that cause corals to bleach and loose color temporarily under LEDs. Being more frequency specific, they just don't look as bright to the eye as they actually are.

I read info for almost a year before purchasing the taotronic leds and one of the most common thing I read was people underestimating the power of these lights and burning their corals.. I won't be able to go back to my LFS until Friday and was hoping to be able to pose an argument in the fixtures defense. When I go back I will ask some more questions as to what he has it set at and such.. I guess I am mostly just curious as to how he thinks that MH or t5 are somehow emitting more UV (or any??) that the taos

 

[Gregcoyote]

If I could buy a MH fixture that ran heatless, burned for 50,000 hours without roll off, didn't pose a fire hazard and cost a fifth the electricity, I would buy one. Photons are photons. All useful if the plants photosynthesis with it.

 

[Jmkb02]

I've had great experience with these LEDs. I've had several times where my corals start to bleach out and I've had to move them around and under rocks in order to stop it. I have the dimmables and they are all the way down, about 12" over a 14 " deep tank with no optics. These things really are amazing and you can and will underestimate them!
Another experience was at a lfs, they had them up over 80%! The tank was a standard 60 and the had one unit over it. Every single one of his corals in that tank were bleached. He couldn't figure out why the "color" kept going away in all of his new acquisitions. I turned em all the way down for him and its been about 2 months now. Still mostly bleached but at least they are starting to come back a lil.

 

[Jmkb02]

Something else I have learned is, look at what your new corals are under. Most of my lfs are still t5's and some mh. Your LEDs are much more powerful than these as they penetrate so well. This is how I have started to bleach several of my corals.

 

[Dary421]

1878 at around 3:00pm.

It would be rather interesting if any fellow reefers with similar par meters from different zones such as florida, hawaii, Australia etc would take reading at certain times of the day just to compare par....the intensity would have to change Drastically imo with different coral growing areas ... It would be interesting just to see the scores

 

[Gregcoyote]

It would be rather interesting if any fellow reefers with similar par meters from different zones such as florida, hawaii, Australia etc would take reading at certain times of the day just to compare par....the intensity would have to change Drastically mo with different coral growing areas ... It would be interesting just to see the scores

There is a published study of just what you suggested. I will try to find it later.

 

[mr_X]

This is a little bit off the current topic (sorry) but I was in my lfs a couple of days ago and asked the owner how he liked using the LED's he had over two of the grow out tanks. They are the dimmable taos that are discussed on here. He said they were doing fine, but when I asked him if he planned on converting everything over to them, he became pretty negative about them, saying they weren't cost effective and that he was losing color on some of the acros he had under them. I wish I had asked him what he had them set at, because my first impression was that maybe he was burning them by turning the lights up to high. The thing he said that prompted me to ask this question though, was that he said they don't have the UV that corals require to grow, hence the loss of color.

Now, I know that there are plenty of testimonials on here about the growth and color of their corals, and I have loved my fixtures since I got them, and seen noticeable growth, however these are my first lights so I have nothing else to compare them to, and all the corals I have need moderate lighting at best.

Anyways, I wasn't really sure how to question him on what he meant by UV.. Other than the difference between the ultra violet color and the actual wave length, but even then, I don't know much. I personally have no doubt that these lights can keep anything that I want under them, just would like to know how to convey information to my LFS. It's a little hard to tell him what to do though seeing as how I am very much still a noob in the hobby If anyone has any suggestions or talking points I could use in defense of these lights, I would appreciate it!

They are way more potent than halides or T5s. The spectrum idea is nonsense. Corals only need the blue wavelength to do well.
The naked eye lies to you when you look at these. You think they are pretty bright...maybe as bright as your old halide unit...maybe even a little dimmer, but make no mistake. I was just talking to the guy who bought my old 265 today, which is 31" deep. He's cooking stuff on the sand bed...lol.
The UV thing is also nonsense. Just like Greg said- The UV diodes are simply violet colored, and not ultraviolet at all.
I've noticed that for sps, It's a matter of acclimation. Mine are just now getting brilliantly colored under these units. It took a while! The important thing is, they are super colorful and growing at a rapid rate.

Tell him to run straight blues for a month or two. His corals will still stay colored up and awesome.

 

[Dary421]

They are way more potent than halides or T5s. The spectrum idea is nonsense. Corals only need the blue wavelength to do well.
The naked eye lies to you when you look at these. You think they are pretty bright...maybe as bright as your old halide unit...maybe even a little dimmer, but make no mistake. I was just talking to the guy who bought my old 265 today, which is 31" deep. He's cooking stuff on the sand bed...lol.
The UV thing is also nonsense. Just like Greg said- The UV diodes are simply violet colored, and not ultraviolet at all.
I've noticed that for sps, It's a matter of acclimation. Mine are just now getting brilliantly colored under these units. It took a while! The important thing is, they are super colorful and growing at a rapid rate.

Tell him to run straight blues for a month or two. His corals will still stay colored up and awesome.

So you could run straight blue LED's on your tank if you wish and it wouldn't matter to the corals/ live stock at all? The combo of blue and white s only to balance out the coloration of the tank for our eyes only ?

 

[mr_X]

If they have enough PAR, yes, and the Taotronics or similar fixtures have plenty of blues. Right now I have one of my sumps lit with just blues and I have montis, anemones, and LPS doing well and growing pretty quickly under them.

 

[Gregcoyote]

When you dive on the real thing and do a lot of photography, as I did, you realize quickly that almost everything but blue light penetrates much deeper than 30'. But some corals, like zoas are in tidal zones and can be under very little or no water for short periods of time. Those get hit by a lot of UV and it would have some effect on protective pigments. And UV penetrates water pretty well.

But growth comes from primarily blue frequencies because that's what they evolved to absorb in the wild. Not that they can't grow under other colors.

 

[Dary421]

Ok,..so re.led's all the whites,greens purple bulbs that the fixtures have are purely for eye candy and not primarily useful except for added light,...how about fluorescent bulb., same values??

 

[mr_X]

Sure. When I had a problem with a rose bubble tip getting itself in a dark cavern and not coming out, as I was watching it slowly bleach, I tried aiming a 5000k lamp at it to stop it from wasting away. It worked perfect. Remember that? Page 51 of my build ....

 

[Gregcoyote]

Photons are photons, some frequencies bounce back (giving the coral it's colors) and some get absorbed. White light has several frequencies, including blue, that the algae can absorb. But as discuss previously, full spectrum LEDs that have a few magenta and even green LEDs can make the coral look brighter. But as to growth, they are meaningless.

Deep violet, or actinic tubes are at about 480nm I think. UV is much shorter than that. The actinic tubes do have a little UV in them. That causes some corals to show off some fluorescence.